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RatkoVarda

2019 Tiger Prospects

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4 hours ago, kdog said:

Do service time concerns really matter for pitchers? The attrition rate is so high you might as well use the bullets while you can.

Exactly. 

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I mean, let's say hypothetically a pitcher is destined to get hurt in 2022, does it really make any difference to the Tigers if his bullets were used up in AA this year or on this awful MLB team? I guess as fans it would be cool to see him pitch a little more, but it's not like the team is gaining any benefit. And in the chance they don't get injured, the service time would be helpful.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting you keep Mize in the minors next year as well if he continues dominating, there comes a point when someone just forces their way into MLB, but I think it's pretty clear this year's team is almost certainly abominably bad, and unless they have 3 or 4 position players ready to join Mize in the big leagues, I don't see how any of our minor league pitchers ae really needed this year.

It's also surely easier to manage their innings and keep them from being overworked in a minor league situation where no one has to pretend the wins or losses matter.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK, I've been thinking more along the line doing away with control periods completely but give teams contract matching rights on anyone they want to keep and 5 or 6 yr limit on contract length Let the younger better players make the bigger money with their home teams

That sounds like a good start...when are you thinking the contract matching rights start then?  

I would think the one thing that the union and owners should be able to agree upon is that paying players in their late 20's is better than paying them in their late 30's.  Players get their big payday sooner and owners avoid albatross contracts.  

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Do total years of control based on age, not service. Instead of rule 5, allow minor leaguers to opt out if not put on the 40 man after 3 or 4 years. Major league level salaries start as soon as you are on the 40. Salary increases every year for the first 3 years, after that arbitration kicks in. If you get added to the 40 in the middle of the season, you get back pay and it counts as the first year.

The total years of control you get is also determined based on age.  Essentially, teams retain control until the age 28 or 29 season. If you break through at 19, you end up being controlled for 9 or 10 years, but six of those are arbitration level salaries. And you still enter the market at an age where you aren’t over the hill.

So, in the case of a Casey Mize type, you don’t get a call up this year, but there is no harm in putting him on the opening day roster next year. 

This would hurt a lot of players hoping to be called up for the first time late in a season, but so be it. It would provide more opportunities for vets, though. 

I’m sure there are some holes there but whatever. 

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK, I've been thinking more along the line doing away with control periods completely but give teams contract matching rights on anyone they want to keep and 5 or 6 yr limit on contract length Let the younger better players make the bigger money with their home teams

That might work out if teams actually participated.

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6 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Faedo got roughed up in the first. Three runs including two hrs.

ended up giving up 4 HR in the 1st two IP. MiLB doesn't give velocity but it does give pitch maps and it was mostly pitches up in the zone. Erie hit two HR also so the ball was flying well.

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5 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

ended up giving up 4 HR in the 1st two IP. MiLB doesn't give velocity but it does give pitch maps and it was mostly pitches up in the zone. Erie hit two HR also so the ball was flying well.

What are these "HR" you speak of?

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6 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

ended up giving up 4 HR in the 1st two IP. MiLB doesn't give velocity but it does give pitch maps and it was mostly pitches up in the zone. Erie hit two HR also so the ball was flying well.

I read on twitter from somebody in attendance that he was sitting 93-94 the first inning.  He also said that Faedo faced the same team last week and wasn't mixing up any pitches so he assumes they just had him timed down.   For some reason he didn't post anything after the 1st inning so I don't know what his velo was the rest of the game. 

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On 4/17/2019 at 4:29 PM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Not only that, if someone is appropriately challenged at AA, he should be at AA.

You don't put a person who is just starting Algebra class into Calculus on the premise he will learn more because he is being challenged more.

Same applies with developing athletes.

If your young, cheap talent is as good as your expensive, old talent, I'd go with the ones that actually have a chance to help your team in the future.

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10 minutes ago, roarintiger1 said:

If your young, cheap talent is as good as your expensive, old talent, I'd go with the ones that actually have a chance to help your team in the future.

But they are still on the hook for the expensive, old talent right now.

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13 hours ago, pyrotigers said:

I mean, let's say hypothetically a pitcher is destined to get hurt in 2022, does it really make any difference to the Tigers if his bullets were used up in AA this year or on this awful MLB team? I guess as fans it would be cool to see him pitch a little more, but it's not like the team is gaining any benefit. And in the chance they don't get injured, the service time would be helpful.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting you keep Mize in the minors next year as well if he continues dominating, there comes a point when someone just forces their way into MLB, but I think it's pretty clear this year's team is almost certainly abominably bad, and unless they have 3 or 4 position players ready to join Mize in the big leagues, I don't see how any of our minor league pitchers ae really needed this year.

It's also surely easier to manage their innings and keep them from being overworked in a minor league situation where no one has to pretend the wins or losses matter.

Yes. If wins and losses mattered at all this year, then by all means call up Mize once he appears to be ready. But his bullets, so to speak, mean nothing this year. 

If they head into next season with even a decent chance of competing, then fine, put him on the opening day roster like we did with porcello in 2009. That seems unlikely, but who knows. Maybe Cabrera turns it around, candelario takes a step forward, Niko is great. Stewart is good. Willi and Lugo look good. Etc. sure, whatever. 

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I want to be entertained.  Sign Mize long term if he's good.  That's not to say that I am asking for him to be called up.   I have no idea when he'll be ready.  I just wouldn't hold him back if he is.  

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42 minutes ago, Casimir said:

But they are still on the hook for the expensive, old talent right now.

At some point you have to cut your losses............literally.   I'm just not sure who goes next after Zimmerman.

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59 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I want to be entertained.  Sign Mize long term if he's good.  That's not to say that I am asking for him to be called up.   I have no idea when he'll be ready.  I just wouldn't hold him back if he is.  

I'm excited to see how this new fad of signing cost-controlled players to long term deals changes things. It'll still have relevance for fringey players but the good ones will make the service time thing irrelevant. 

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17 minutes ago, Yoda said:

I'm excited to see how this new fad of signing cost-controlled players to long term deals changes things. It'll still have relevance for fringey players but the good ones will make the service time thing irrelevant. 

I am also interested to see how it goes. I’m trying to remember all of the deals. 

Eloy signed his seven year deal with a couple options available. Of course, this deal was made after they had kept him down all of last year and had optioned him to the minors during spring training, so the ability of the Sox to keep him down and manipulate the service time was obviously a factor and likely had a part in how the deal ended up looking. 

The acuna deal was for a guy who had already established himself and whose service time situation was known. I believe he had also been held back to gain the extra year. 

The Albies deal was agent malpractice. But he was already an established player, too, and I think his service time was also such that they had the extra year of control. 

So, I don’t know. These deals are interesting, but they also come from the fact that the teams had the leverage due to service time factor. So I don’t think it’s true that it will make service time irrelevant. I think it was a very relevant factor in how the deals were negotiated. 

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1 hour ago, roarintiger1 said:

If your young, cheap talent is as good as your expensive, old talent, I'd go with the ones that actually have a chance to help your team in the future.

If your young, cheap talent still haven't reached their ceiling and are more likely to reach that ceiling by staying in the minors, then you keep them in the minors.

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BTW I saw yesterday on Pipeline's twitter that Parades moved into the top 100 cause somebody(can't remember who) got called up. 

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40 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I am also interested to see how it goes. I’m trying to remember all of the deals. 

Eloy signed his seven year deal with a couple options available. Of course, this deal was made after they had kept him down all of last year and had optioned him to the minors during spring training, so the ability of the Sox to keep him down and manipulate the service time was obviously a factor and likely had a part in how the deal ended up looking. 

The acuna deal was for a guy who had already established himself and whose service time situation was known. I believe he had also been held back to gain the extra year. 

The Albies deal was agent malpractice. But he was already an established player, too, and I think his service time was also such that they had the extra year of control. 

So, I don’t know. These deals are interesting, but they also come from the fact that the teams had the leverage due to service time factor. So I don’t think it’s true that it will make service time irrelevant. I think it was a very relevant factor in how the deals were negotiated. 

All those guys are from poorer backgrounds in Latin American countries too, and didn't get top of draft bonus money. 

I don't see Mize giving us FA years, even as options. A 7 year deal starting next year would take him through his age 29 season. Good for him. If it's a reasonable deal and Mize is at least a good 2 starter, that also adds to his trade value if the rebuild goes bad. 

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If Mize is lights out this year at Erie (and potentially Toledo), you might want to call him up when rosters expand, depending on the 40-man situation.  I doubt he'd pitch, though, or at best, sparingly, given they might want to manage his innings.  Barring a collapse, I think he's penciled into the next Spring's starting rotation.

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