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Lloyd McClendon

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1 hour ago, six-hopper said:

Fifteen games is a small sample in any terms, and particularly for the application of the Pythagorean formula, but even so, with 40 runs scored and 49 allowed, Pythagoras says that the Tigers should be 6-9.  Two games better than the expectation after only 15 games is a lot, and suggests what most if not all of us probably already know: the Tigers' 8-7 record is a fluke, and metaphorically, winter is coming. 

Or Ron Gardenhire is better than you think.  He uses analytics, ya'll.  

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Does Lloyd preach launch angles at all?  This team rarely sees the outfield, let alone the warning track, or even loud foul balls.

Now 4 or less in 15 or the first 17 games.  They still have only 7 home runs, and are on pace for a team total of 428 runs for the entire year.

They are slowly getting out of small sample size and starting to get into brutally bad offense.

I can't believe that Castellanos, Cabrera and Candelario have combined for zero home runs and 8 RBI total through 17 games.  That is awful.  He**, Chris Davis has 6 RBI and a HR this year himself.

At what point does something change in the line up, the hitting coach?  Not that it really matters, we all know this team is built to lose, but i don;t think we expected them to pitch so well.  Any other team with this early pitching would be about 11-6 or thereabouts.

This squad is somehow 8-9, based off his offense it could easily be 4-13 or something like that.

 

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49 minutes ago, kj2018 said:

Does Lloyd preach launch angles at all? 

if you add lift to your swing but don't see the ball well all you will do is hit the top half....and ground out. You have to be able to hit it before you can control where you hit it. The Tigers are not at A yet, expecting B is pure hope.

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1 hour ago, kj2018 said:

  Not that it really matters, we all know this team is built to lose,

Yeah, but just look at all the swell prospects we landed by trading away our best talent. 💤 

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12 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Yeah, but just look at all the swell prospects we landed by trading away our best talent. 💤 

Factor in the premium free agents we signed -- Moore, Beckham, Harrison, and Mercer -- and it seems like we should be danm near impossible to beat.

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This quote was from David Schoenfeld at ESPN about the Tigers offense:  

Obviously, 20 strikeouts is more impressive when it comes from one pitcher, and this Tigers lineup is a complete mess (it leads the majors in strikeout rate while averaging just 3.50 runs per game), but kudos to the White Sox for a game to remember. (They still have the worst rotation ERA in the majors)

 

that pretty much sums up Lloyd and his fighting hitters

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Today was an awful game, all the way around.

This team is not good, and has over achieved thus far (if you consider 14-16 over achieving).

But the offense has now scored 4 or less in 25 of the 30 games thus far.  They are falling WAAAY behind most of the AL in runs scored and home runs (thanks to the indians to keeping the bottom two somewhat close, otherwise, the there is a bigger and bigger gap between the Tigers and the rest of the league in most offensive categories)

That is amazingly consistent, in a bad sense.  The pressure on the pitchers each and every game is immense.

This team is not built to win this year (and the organization really does not care if they win or not).

However, besides the fact that the offense is not going to win any awards, I am at a loss as to what Lloyd brings to the teams offense.  He has been here for many years, and i have seen the same things occur year after year.  (strikeouts, awful situational hitting).

I feel like a directional change at the top of the hitting coach tree may be a thing the organization should look into.  

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26 games out of 32 with 4 or less, or 81 % of the time.  If you just count regulation, they have 4 or less in 27 games, or 84 % of the time.

They average 3.47 runs per game (3.28 in regulation), and still have the fewest home runs in all of baseball.

If not for the Tribe, they would be dead last, and way back, in most if not all offensive categories in the AL (Marlins are the worst O in baseball, and they already fired their hitting coach)

This is all good for the tanking purposes, but i fear that the offensive mindset of the higher ups will filter down to the lower levels and start to poison the few position players that are higher prospects to reach the bigs.

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some fun stats:

Last slew of games runs scored:  1-2-3-1-4-1-5-2-5-0-0-10-5-4-3-3-3-1  Of those games, 4 runs came with 2 outs and in the bottom of the 9th and the team way out of the game.  So, that is 53 runs in 19 games or 2.88 runs a game.  Take out the 4 garbage runs and it goes down to 2.58 runs a game.  Take out the 10 spot (I know, i am cherry picking now) and you have 39 runs in 18 games, or 2.17 runs per game.  

This is over an almost 20 game stretch.  They have 5 guys still hitting under .200 on the current squad, they had to demote one other guy who was hitting under .200.  

They lead the league at swinging at strikes outside of the zone, capped off by a whopping 38 times in the Friday night game.  Some teams won't do that in 2 weeks.

There was a great quote that Gehringer added in the GDT, Jake Rogers said that the difference between the philosophy between the Astros and Tigers is that the Tigers top down hitting approach is to try and find pitches to drive.  That obviously is not working, period.

At some point, there has to be some sort of change in this organization, from a hitting perspective. '

The pressure on the pitching staff is immense, the Starters feel like they have to throw a shutout to just hang in there.  

 

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18 minutes ago, kj2018 said:

some fun stats:

Last slew of games runs scored:  1-2-3-1-4-1-5-2-5-0-0-10-5-4-3-3-3-1  Of those games, 4 runs came with 2 outs and in the bottom of the 9th and the team way out of the game.  So, that is 53 runs in 19 games or 2.88 runs a game.  Take out the 4 garbage runs and it goes down to 2.58 runs a game.  Take out the 10 spot (I know, i am cherry picking now) and you have 39 runs in 18 games, or 2.17 runs per game.  

 This is over an almost 20 game stretch.  They have 5 guys still hitting under .200 on the current squad, they had to demote one other guy who was hitting under .200.  

They lead the league at swinging at strikes outside of the zone, capped off by a whopping 38 times in the Friday night game.  Some teams won't do that in 2 weeks.

There was a great quote that Gehringer added in the GDT, Jake Rogers said that the difference between the philosophy between the Astros and Tigers is that the Tigers top down hitting approach is to try and find pitches to drive.  That obviously is not working, period.

 At some point, there has to be some sort of change in this organization, from a hitting perspective. '

 The pressure on the pitching staff is immense, the Starters feel like they have to throw a shutout to just hang in there.  

  

Change in approach, yes. I think the biggest problem is talent evaluation rather than hitting philosophy. The guys we draft, the guys we trade for, the guys we sign via free agency. Largely free swingers with little to no patience. There are some exceptions of course. Looking for a pitch to drive is nothing out of the ordinary. All orgs teach this. That's the essence of hitting. But there's way, way more to it than that and the Tigers just aren't good at finding players who excel at any of those other things. 

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14 hours ago, kj2018 said:

some fun stats:

Last slew of games runs scored:  1-2-3-1-4-1-5-2-5-0-0-10-5-4-3-3-3-1  Of those games, 4 runs came with 2 outs and in the bottom of the 9th and the team way out of the game.  So, that is 53 runs in 19 games or 2.88 runs a game.  Take out the 4 garbage runs and it goes down to 2.58 runs a game.  Take out the 10 spot (I know, i am cherry picking now) and you have 39 runs in 18 games, or 2.17 runs per game.  

This is over an almost 20 game stretch.  They have 5 guys still hitting under .200 on the current squad, they had to demote one other guy who was hitting under .200.  

They lead the league at swinging at strikes outside of the zone, capped off by a whopping 38 times in the Friday night game.  Some teams won't do that in 2 weeks.

There was a great quote that Gehringer added in the GDT, Jake Rogers said that the difference between the philosophy between the Astros and Tigers is that the Tigers top down hitting approach is to try and find pitches to drive.  That obviously is not working, period.

At some point, there has to be some sort of change in this organization, from a hitting perspective. '

The pressure on the pitching staff is immense, the Starters feel like they have to throw a shutout to just hang in there.  

 

Agreed...100%

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13 hours ago, Yoda said:

Change in approach, yes. I think the biggest problem is talent evaluation rather than hitting philosophy. The guys we draft, the guys we trade for, the guys we sign via free agency. Largely free swingers with little to no patience. There are some exceptions of course. Looking for a pitch to drive is nothing out of the ordinary. All orgs teach this. That's the essence of hitting. But there's way, way more to it than that and the Tigers just aren't good at finding players who excel at any of those other things. 

A change in approach is an understatement.   That will only come with a change in the hitting coach.  The Tigers can't possibly do worse than McClendon. Granted the players with lesser talent need to be weeded out. But the change needs to be made.  It seems that the coach is telling the players to swing at everything......in case you hit it.  They have no discipline when it comes to the strike zone. 

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14 hours ago, Yoda said:

Change in approach, yes. I think the biggest problem is talent evaluation rather than hitting philosophy. The guys we draft, the guys we trade for, the guys we sign via free agency. Largely free swingers with little to no patience. There are some exceptions of course. Looking for a pitch to drive is nothing out of the ordinary. All orgs teach this. That's the essence of hitting. But there's way, way more to it than that and the Tigers just aren't good at finding players who excel at any of those other things. 

I agree with this. I would further hypothesize that different orgs put varying degrees of emphasis on looking to drive a pitch versus recognizing and responding appropriately to the pitch.

An organization, like the Astros, emphasizes pitch recognition more, which by necessity must flow from discerning the pitch coming in and whether their guy should put a swing on it. If he believes it's a hittable strike, then he should drive it. Such organizations are looking for hitters who are more polished products with some background already in pitch recognition.

Another organization, like the Tigers, emphasizes looking for pitches to drive, which leads to expanding the area a hitter believes that this given pitch qualifies as being such a pitch. Such organizations are looking for hitters who are more athletic with the skill to hit the ball hard, even if it's not center cut for them, and who might eventually hone his ability to discern between a pitch out of the zone from a pitch in the zone.

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30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Such organizations are looking for hitters who are more athletic with the skill to hit the ball hard, even if it's not center cut for them, and who might eventually hone his ability to discern between a pitch out of the zone from a pitch in the zone.

I think the history of the Major leagues argues that athleticism is an incredibly poor indicator for likely success hitting a baseball.

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14 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think the history of the Major leagues argues that athleticism is an incredibly poor indicator for likely success hitting a baseball.

How do you mean?

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10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

How do you mean?

that hitting is virtually all neurological and vision talent. The actual swinging of the bat is way down on the list. When Rusty Staub is a great hitter and Micheal Jordan couldn't get out of AA is what I mean. It's also nice to be very strong like Cabrera, but core strength exists independently of great athleticism as well - as per Miguel.

The best go chase a bad ball hitter I ever saw was Guerrero. I wouldn't even call him particularly athletic though he wasn't bad either I guess.

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6 hours ago, roarintiger1 said:

A change in approach is an understatement.   That will only come with a change in the hitting coach.  The Tigers can't possibly do worse than McClendon. Granted the players with lesser talent need to be weeded out. But the change needs to be made.  It seems that the coach is telling the players to swing at everything......in case you hit it.  They have no discipline when it comes to the strike zone. 

Which is odd given the supposed off season focus on reducing the K rate.  It seems like that was a quaint notion of a bygone era...

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4 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

Which is odd given the supposed off season focus on reducing the K rate.  It seems like that was a quaint notion of a bygone era...

The Tigers have the highest swing and miss rate in the AL i believe.  So much for the theory of not striking out, and for the theory of finding a pitch to drive somewhere.  They usually drive it into the catchers mitt, or an easy out into a fielder's mitt.

 

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The league has evolved into a swing for the fenses at a all cost method while Lloyd is stuck in make contact.. hit in play method. It all went to **** when a couple of doofuses decided to change the team from power to a national league style team when they built Comerica. Yeah, let's go back into the stone ages of dead ball era baseball and win with speed. They still believe that..

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Look at the Tigers roster this year and that tells you why they can't hit.  It's all AAAA players and re-treads from Pittsburgh.  The best hitting coach in the world isn't going to get much out of this group.  

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13 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Look at the Tigers roster this year and that tells you why they can't hit.  It's all AAAA players and re-treads from Pittsburgh.  The best hitting coach in the world isn't going to get much out of this group.  

Even Charlie Lau?

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1 hour ago, kj2018 said:

The Tigers have the highest swing and miss rate in the AL i believe.  So much for the theory of not striking out, and for the theory of finding a pitch to drive somewhere.  They usually drive it into the catchers mitt, or an easy out into a fielder's mitt.

 

They also swing at the most pitches outside of the zone. These are largely Al guys. That's the answer to the Tigers problems, not Lloyd. 

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3 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

Even Charlie Lau?

He's dead, so he probably wouldn't hurt them.  

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