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2019 REGULAR SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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To be fair, Comisky was notoriously cheap and players were objectively being underpaid pretty badly.  That is an angle to the story.  I suspect at least some players did it in part because they were embittered.  I'm also not sure the film works if there is no justification for throwing games other than sheer greed, but maybe?

Setting that aside, there were many other gambling scandals of that decade, including the 1916 World Series.  I suspect players saw other guys getting away with throwing games, so why shouldn't they cash in?  I suspect that was the most common justification those players used.

 

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Anyone who is truly interested in accuracy regarding the Black Sox Scandal, here is the definitive place to go:

https://sabr.org/eight-myths-out

This is maintained by the head of SABR's Black Sox Scandal Committee, Jacob Pomrenke, who has established himself as the foremost expert on the scandal to the degree that's he's fielded about 100 interviews about it just this year, including one that will appear in the ESPN special on the scandal later in the fall.

And bonus: one of the sections deals specifically with inaccuracies in Eight Men Out, both the book and the movie:

https://sabr.org/eight-myths-out/appendix 

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44 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Joe took $10,000 for the express purpose of throwing games and also did not tell management that the games were not on the level.

Independent of how clean he may have played, innocent isn't a word I would use to describe him in this episode.

I have read an awful lot on this subject, including doing a research paper, for what it’s worth. Apologies for not recalling the source at this time (Eight Men Out book?) but on more than one occasion I have read that Jackson attempted to inform Comiskey personally of the fix. Comiskey’s secretary (forget the guys name) refused to let Jackson see Comiskey. Comiskey knew what was going on, who didn’t!?!? Comiskey was in the business of shielding himself from being proven to be knowledgeable of what was going on. Comiskey was as crooked as Gandil. From my reading it is not accurate to say Jackson didn’t make an effort to tell management, management being the owner! 

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Harry Grabner was the team secretary, if I remember correctly.

As I recall it isn't clear whether Jackson did or didn't (he changed his story around a decent bit) or when (before the series or after).

But if it can be shown he told the team before the the incident, then I obviously will remove that objection to his actions.

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Harry Grabner was the team secretary, if I remember correctly.

As I recall it isn't clear whether Jackson did or didn't (he changed his story around a decent bit) or when (before the series or after).

As stated earlier, there are many questions that will never be answered regarding who knew what when, did or didn’t do what when, etc. That’s why I’ll go with his indisputable records of what occurred on the field. His performance in that series was above reproach to any observer with a fair perspective.

Visited his house several years ago in Greenville, SC. It has been relocated and sits by the Greenville Drive Baseball park. It is a museum now and is open on weekends I believe. Years ago I visited the then overgrown Brandon Mill field he used to play on. That was an experience.

 

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Does anyone know the major league record for the highest number of different players on a roster for a single season?  Do the Tigers have a shot at that record this year?

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7 minutes ago, 1776 said:

As stated earlier, there are many questions that will never be answered regarding who knew what when, did or didn’t do what when, etc. That’s why I’ll go with his indisputable records of what occurred on the field. His performance in that series was above reproach to any observer with a fair perspective.

Visited his house several years ago in Greenville, SC. It has been relocated and sits by the Greenville Drive Baseball park. It is a museum now and is open on weekends I believe. Years ago I visited the then overgrown Brandon Mill field he used to play on. That was an experience.

 

It's true that there's little doubt Jackson didn't actually throw any of the games.

But Jackson isn't and wasn't banned for throwing the games. He was banned because he knew about the fix and still let it happen.

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He knew, yes. The question remains as to what degree you could say he “let it happen” as I pointed out above. However, I understand your point.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1776 said:

I have read an awful lot on this subject, including doing a research paper, for what it’s worth. Apologies for not recalling the source at this time (Eight Men Out book?) but on more than one occasion I have read that Jackson attempted to inform Comiskey personally of the fix. Comiskey’s secretary (forget the guys name) refused to let Jackson see Comiskey. Comiskey knew what was going on, who didn’t!?!? Comiskey was in the business of shielding himself from being proven to be knowledgeable of what was going on. Comiskey was as crooked as Gandil. From my reading it is not accurate to say Jackson didn’t make an effort to tell management, management being the owner! 

https://www.espn.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

jackson was guilty as ****.

1) he took the money and he didnt tell anyone of the conspiracy.  guilty.

2) in the games they were supposed to win he hit .545.  in the games he was supposed to lose he hit .250 with 0 rbis.

i know shelton will want to check his babip, but those numbers should at least raise everyone's suspicions that jackson was not trying his hardest when they were supposed to lose.

jackson got what he deserved.

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27 minutes ago, Buddha said:

https://www.espn.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

jackson was guilty as ****.

1) he took the money and he didnt tell anyone of the conspiracy.  guilty.

2) in the games they were supposed to win he hit .545.  in the games he was supposed to lose he hit .250 with 0 rbis.

i know shelton will want to check his babip, but those numbers should at least raise everyone's suspicions that jackson was not trying his hardest when they were supposed to lose.

jackson got what he deserved.

Find me one player in the history of baseball who had better numbers in his teams losses than wins. 

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3 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Find me one player in the history of baseball who had better numbers in his teams losses than wins. 

In a short series, there are lots of examples.  But that goes, the other way too.  Stats in a short series mean little.  

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5 hours ago, kj2018 said:

Some interesting moves today by the Tigers:

1. Josh Harrison DFA’d

2.  Sandy Leon DFA’d

3.  Blaine Hardy sent down to Toledo

4.  Edwin Jackson put on the 40 man roster and will start for the Tigers tonight

5. John Schreiber added to 40 man roster and called up to Detroit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll take Liev Schreiber if it helps.............Anything............

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40 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Nobody denies he took money to throw the series.  That is more than enough to ban him.

To me, the most interesting thing about the 1919 Black Sox are the tangential connections to the Tigers such as:

Kid Gleason pitched for Detroit, So did Sleepy Bill Burns, and Eddie Cicotte.

Eddie Cicotte is buried in Livonia.

Billie Maharg, Burn's partner, played for the Tigers as a strike replacement.

There are others.

 

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1 hour ago, TigerNation said:

Find me one player in the history of baseball who had better numbers in his teams losses than wins. 

Oh that's gotta be Tony Clark doesn't it?

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3 hours ago, roarintiger1 said:

Does anyone know the major league record for the highest number of different players on a roster for a single season?  Do the Tigers have a shot at that record this year?

The 2014 Rangers used a record 64 players.  The 2019 Mariners are apparently ikely to break that record.

If I counted correctly, the Tigers have used a paltry 53 players so far this year.

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16 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

The 2014 Rangers used a record 64 players.  The 2019 Mariners are apparently ikely to break that record.

If I counted correctly, the Tigers have used a paltry 53 players so far this year.

How did you get the kids to sit still so you could use their fingers?  😉

 

With August and call ups in Sept we have a shot at that record.

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42 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

How did you get the kids to sit still so you could use their fingers?  😉

 

With August and call ups in Sept we have a shot at that record.

isn't roster expansion smaller this year - or will that be next year - or did I mis-understand the talk about the changes passed in the off-season completely??

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24 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

isn't roster expansion smaller this year - or will that be next year - or did I mis-understand the talk about the changes passed in the off-season completely??

I forgot about that.  I think it's this season, not sure.

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5 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Nobody denies he took money to throw the series.  That is more than enough to ban him.

Provided you ignore the other half of the story.

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2 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Provided you ignore the other half of the story.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

Hardly. 

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This thread is making me glad I didn't see the movie or read the book. :confused:

But how 'bout those Tigers! The Schrieber call-up against a backdrop of looking for guys who can work more innings makes me wonder where Adleman fits.

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Just now, 1776 said:

Hardly. 

How so?  You're ignoring that he took the money and played like **** in all the games he was paid to play like **** in.

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