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IdahoBert

2019 REGULAR SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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36 minutes ago, Buddha said:

is verlander the greatest pitcher in tigers' history?

(i swear to god if one of you morons says jack morris were going to have to go outside...)

Chris Spurling has to be in contention

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I could see him going in as an Astro if he ages really well and wins a couple World Series there but to tell you the truth it wouldn't bother me either way.   I think most people really don't even know or remember what team most of the Hall of Famers went in for.  Aside from the obvious ones of course.  

I agree with this.  It doesn't matter.  Tigers fans will remember him as a Tiger,  Astros fans will remember him as an Astro.   

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47 minutes ago, Buddha said:

is verlander the greatest pitcher in tigers' history?

(i swear to god if one of you morons says jack morris were going to have to go outside...)

I thought a lot about that when I did my top tens last winter. It's between Verlander, Newhouser and Bridges.  Newhouser has the best numbers, but he had some of his best years in a league depleted by WWII.  It's probably Verlander, but other arguments can reasonably be made.  

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50 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Oh he definitely is without a doubt.   The only one that may have an argument when it's all said and done is Max but of course as a Tiger Verlander has him beat easily.    If you go by WAR there is a strong chance Verlander ends up in the top 10 or so and if you discount players pre deadball era and roiders and he could end up in real elite company. 

If you count his Astros career then yes.  If you include only the time he and other pitchers pitched for the Tigers, then it becomes a contest.  

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46 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I agree with this.  It doesn't matter.  Tigers fans will remember him as a Tiger,  Astros fans will remember him as an Astro.   

I would honestly feel heartbroken and betrayed if he went into the Hall of Fame as an Astro. 

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JV still has a lot of love for Detroit. I doubt he would completely diss the Tigers when he enters the HOF

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10 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I would honestly feel heartbroken and betrayed if he went into the Hall of Fame as an Astro. 

If by some chance Verlander went in as an Astro I would be very disappointed. If it were to happen I’d hold the Tigers responsible for it and not J.V. Stupid contracts by DD forced the orgs hand and JV saw the writing on the wall.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Sure, you care. Otherwise you'd've ignored it instead of hammering it.

You remind me of my wife when she looks me in the eye and says "I'm ignoring you now."

Ok

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Just now, 1776 said:

If by some chance Verlander went in as an Astro I would be very disappointed. If it were to happen I’d hold the Tigers responsible for it and not J.V. Stupid contracts by DD forced the orgs hand and JV saw the writing on the wall.

I would feel betrayed by life itself. I would probably hobble over to a liquor store and smash out the window and loot it.  And I would never eat Little Caesars pizza again. Although I don’t remember having ever eaten it  before, yet those ads with the pizza wrapped in bacon have seemed tempting. 

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I thought a lot about that when I did my top tens last winter. It's between Verlander, Newhouser and Bridges.  Newhouser has the best numbers, but he had some of his best years in a league depleted by WWII.  It's probably Verlander, but other arguments can reasonably be made.  

I'd say the 19 WAR in '44 and '45 are pretty suspect - at least they shouldn't carry anywhere near the weight that say '48 should.

/

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7 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I'd say the 19 WAR in '44 and '45 are pretty suspect - at least they shouldn't carry anywhere near the weight that say '48 should.

/

I heard that in ‘44 and ‘45 they were letting midgets and women play.  They were pretty desperate. But they were not desperate enough to let black men play. 

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20 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

This spring I would have agreed, but a chronic back knee is something that could leave him pretty useless as hitter permanently. He'd basically be Victor but without being able to turn around against some pitchers. I guess will see how he manages it, but given the way he has managed his health so far it is more than a little difficult to be optimistic. HeII, he has known full well that his weight has been a big risk factor for his knees. He could have addressed that anytime in the last 10 yrs. The guy just has zero discipline around his fitness and it's doing him in rapidly.

Let me clarify.

Maybe he should be out of baseball before the end of his contract.  But I doubt that he will be.  If he can move around and can still squarely hit a round ball with a round bat, he's going to be DHing for the Tigers in 2023.  And hopefully he doesn't do it well enough that 2024 and 2025 extensions kick in.

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14 hours ago, chasfh said:

Sure, you care. Otherwise you'd've ignored it instead of hammering it.

You remind me of my wife when she looks me in the eye and says "I'm ignoring you now."

Chas thread

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

Let me clarify.

Maybe he should be out of baseball before the end of his contract.  But I doubt that he will be.  If he can move around and can still squarely hit a round ball with a round bat, he's going to be DHing for the Tigers in 2023.  And hopefully he doesn't do it well enough that 2024 and 2025 extensions kick in.

You can live with a good singles hitter, but not one that also clogs up the bases (last night a case in point)

If the Tigers stay bad then it will just be one more absurd show to keep running a 700 OPS "clean up" hitter out there. It they start to improve the process of cutting him lose will probably get ugly.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

 

If the Tigers stay bad then it will just be one more absurd show to keep running a 700 OPS "clean up" hitter out there. It they start to improve the process of cutting him lose will probably get ugly.

It will be the connection to last successful era of Tiger baseball to hopefully bridge to the next one.  Come out and watch the end of a hall of fame career.  That sort of marketing.

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43 minutes ago, Casimir said:

It will be the connection to last successful era of Tiger baseball to hopefully bridge to the next one.  Come out and watch the end of a hall of fame career.  That sort of marketing.

Sort of how MWG markets Shelton on here?

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

You can live with a good singles hitter, but not one that also clogs up the bases (last night a case in point)

I can live with anyone who gets on base.

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35 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

Sort of how MWG markets Shelton on here?

Not really.  Cabrera is past his prime.  Shelton's prime should still last into the next window of playoff contention.

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18 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I can live with anyone who gets on base.

it will depend on the situation and what the other options are. If the team is bad no-one cares - it will just be good sniping material for the forum. If they start getting competitive and you are DHing a station to station 300/340/360 and a 1st to 3rd 265/300/475 is sitting on the bench that will be less easy to live with.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

it will depend on the situation and what the other options are. If the team is bad no-one cares - it will just be good sniping material for the forum. If they start getting competitive and you are DHing a station to station 300/350/350 and a 1st to 3rd 265/300/475 is sitting on the bench that will be less easy to live with.

Why would castellanos be sitting on the bench?

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

it will depend on the situation and what the other options are. If the team is bad no-one cares - it will just be good sniping material for the forum. If they start getting competitive and you are DHing a station to station 300/350/350 and a 1st to 3rd 265/300/475 is sitting on the bench that will be less easy to live with.

It will not.  It really is as simple as getting on relatively frequently or not.

Players fail to get on more often than not, so sniping material will always exist, whether a team is good or not.

 

Station to station / base clogging being a drag on offense can happen, but it just really isn't as significant as is often suggested.  It maybe is worth .010 in OBP or something.

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Why would castellanos be sitting on the bench?

Haha - those are about Nick's numbers. I revised the original a little bit to get closer to Cabrera's actual numbers but I was actually thinking more along the lines of a Brandon Dixon as the other guy.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It will not.  It really is as simple as getting on relatively frequently or not.

Players fail to get on more often than not, so sniping material will always exist, whether a team is good or not.

 

Station to station / base clogging being a drag on offense can happen, but it just really isn't as significant as is often suggested.  It maybe is worth .010 in OBP or something.

Don't forget the 125 ISO differential that is also in the example. And I disagree on 010 OPS. The Tigers were significantly under their run expectancy in the seasons when they were featuring Prince, Cabrera, Victor, Avila et al on the bases together.

If you drop him in the order to 7th or 8th you help that a little, which probably also wouldn't go down well.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Haha - those are about Nick's numbers. I revised the original a little bit to get closer to Cabrera's actual numbers but I was actually thinking more along the lines of a Brandon Dixon as the other guy.

Cabrera’s obp is 80 points higher than his batting average right now. And even with his injury, I don’t see an iso of 60. 

300/370/400 seems like a fair line to expect. That’s still not good for a DH, but it is what it is. That won’t kill your lineup.

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