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IdahoBert

2019 REGULAR SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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I don't understand it.......if these players/teams don't want to get shifted, then why not bunt/slap the ball to the side that's open?   I know it wouldn't work for Cabrera's slowness, but for some other players why not?   Isn't their job to get on base, no matter how?    If some players did that enough, the teams would have to stop shifting so much.   Take what they give you, put your ego away.   

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16 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't understand it.......if these players/teams don't want to get shifted, then why not bunt/slap the ball to the side that's open?   I know it wouldn't work for Cabrera's slowness, but for some other players why not?   Isn't their job to get on base, no matter how?    If some players did that enough, the teams would have to stop shifting so much.   Take what they give you, put your ego away.   

They are not good enough hitters to be able to control where they hit the ball. Hitting the ball in the air the other way is doable for some guys, hitting the ball on the ground the other way reliably is harder and most of them just don't know how to bunt at all. If they do not change the rules, then there is no question in my mind the next big winning system is going to be a team full of all field hitters that can't be shifted on.

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

They are not good enough hitters to be able to control where they hit the ball. Hitting the ball in the air the other way is doable for some guys, hitting the ball on the ground the other way reliably is harder and most of them just don't know how to bunt at all. If they do not change the rules, then there is no question in my mind the next big winning system is going to be a team full of all field hitters that can't be shifted on.

Definitely agree, that is the next innovation that will be a huge competitive advantage - a whole team full of line drive hitters with balanced spray charts.

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Top 3 pick? Does that mean we're better than Miami? Better than Baltimore? I don't think we are. I think we can get that #1 pick.  Yeah.

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21 minutes ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

Top 3 pick? Does that mean we're better than Miami? Better than Baltimore? I don't think we are. I think we can get that #1 pick.  Yeah.

After Oakland the Tigers play Miami for three games at home.  A short series doesn’t demonstrate anything fundamentally, but it may be indicative of how good or bad these two teams are when stacked up against each other.  If the Tigers struggle at home against the Marlins that may be a woeful indication of their future. 

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1 hour ago, Charles Liston said:

Definitely agree, that is the next innovation that will be a huge competitive advantage - a whole team full of line drive hitters with balanced spray charts.

Would it be a stretch to say that’s what the dead ball era was? 

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35 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Would it be a stretch to say that’s what the dead ball era was? 

I don't think we'll ever get back to well dressed crowds and great nicknames.

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9 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I don't think we'll ever get back to well dressed crowds and great nicknames.

This is mostly true, but SlickNickShady did have, however, a great hat. 

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10 hours ago, Tim Mitchell said:

 

He is not hurt. He is out of shape and fat.

 

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7 hours ago, Oblong said:

I’m doubting that Miggy gets to 500 homers.  And.... is there a scenario where he is not a first ballot hall of famer?

no.

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11 minutes ago, Buddha said:

no.

It's still possible, what if tomorrow he said "I hate nothing more than sportswriters, they are a blight on society and should be executed. Viva Bonds!"?

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12 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

It's still possible, what if tomorrow he said "I hate nothing more than sportswriters, they are a blight on society and should be executed. Viva Bonds!"?

Hunter Thompson once said that sports writers and announcers were a cult of drunken neo-fascists.  That’s something that would have an effect. 

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11 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

they probably are not as bad as they look now, probably were not as good as they looked at 2 under 500. There isn't much value (other than conversationally of course)  in predicting where they end up since it is going to depend so strongly on who gets moved. You only have to subtract a piece like Boyd to add another 7-10 losses to the total.

If Boyd has 7-10 WAR left to put up over his current 1.8, that would make him a slam dunk Cy Young. I suppose it’s still possible, but I wouldn’t bet he’s at that level. He’s on track for 7 total and that’s assuming he keeps rolling as is. If so, we’d lose five in exchange for a replacement-level pitcher. 

I wouldn’t advocate keeping a 28-year-old pitcher who might be having his career year in anticipation of becoming a contender eventually, but I’m more concerned about what Avila would agree to take in return for Boyd.

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5 hours ago, Buddha said:

no.

He could test positive for PEDs.  

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

He could test positive for PEDs.  

Well, he could come out and shoot someone tomorrow, that would preclude him from being a "first ballot" HOF.  But on stats alone, he has done more than enough in his career already to be considered one of the greatest right handed hitters of all time.

Miggy is a first ballot hall of famer and will go in as a Tiger.  No doubt.

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The Tigers currently have 7 guys who are/were regular starters who are hitting near or below the Mendoza line.   I thought it was bad when we had one here (Alex Avila), but now the Tigers have 7. 

Something has to change.  Firing Legendary Lloyd would be where I start.  Of course, finding better players is another option. 

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Fire Avila...he's done a pretty awful job of building the farm system...apart from the guys he's gotten back in trades, he's potentially hit on three #1 picks and that's about it.   

You have to wonder why we have Veteran Old Guy manager if the team has decided to tune him out and play without list.   I simply can't abide by a lack of list.  Fire him too...  Fire Lloyd...fire everyone and start over

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16 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

Fire Avila...he's done a pretty awful job of building the farm system...apart from the guys he's gotten back in trades, he's potentially hit on three #1 picks and that's about it.   

You have to wonder why we have Veteran Old Guy manager if the team has decided to tune him out and play without list.   I simply can't abide by a lack of list.  Fire him too...  Fire Lloyd...fire everyone and start over

So the team has turned out to be as awful as most prognosticators thought - therefore it's time to fire everyone?  

Many on this board have openly rooted for the tank - now that the tank is being executed to perfection - fire everyone?

And people wonder why talk radio thrives.

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Yes...being OK with the team being perpetually awful because you expect them to be awful is part of why talk radio thrives.

Avila...at the very least... needs to go.  When Ulrich Bojarski is the one thriving bat you scouted and signed in your tenure at the top, you need to leave.

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43 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

Yes...being OK with the team being perpetually awful because you expect them to be awful is part of why talk radio thrives.

Avila...at the very least... needs to go.  When Ulrich Bojarski is the one thriving bat you scouted and signed in your tenure at the top, you need to leave.

Im still confused as to why this org has next to 0 presence on the international market.  You'd of thought they'd fix that years ago.  Guess not...

 

When youve only had a couple marginal(and thats being generous) home grown players over the past decade+, youre obviously doing something wrong.  Problem is, most of the guys responsible for this are not only still in the org, they got promoted.  Pretty disgusting if you ask me. 

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We really can't say the tank is being executed to perfection until they emerge from it as a playoff contender.

Over the last 20 years the Tigers have had the second highest standard deviation in win totals of any franchise outside of the Astros, who are now perennial world-beaters. Houston picked the right time to tank so they could take advantage of market inefficiencies, and that was when only one other team was doing it. Today, we're just one of several me-too franchises doing the same hoping to hit the jackpot. It's something that requires patience, which takes the front office off the hook of sharp criticism about their on-field product for a few years, while they field a perfectly awful team. And if there's one thing the Ilitches have proven over the decades, they are perfectly fine with being perfectly awful for long stretches of time, both during the summer and, as we've recently learned, during the winter.

I have to admit that the arms the Tigers organization has picked up so far look promising as of now, but they will have to make it to Detroit still effective and free of owies before I can concede perfection. I ain't counting any chickens just yet. Now they have to pick the right hitters to complement them. For a see ball-hit ball organization to succeed in the headwinds of a pitch recognition era, they're going to have to roll a few sevens and a few elevens. 

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31 minutes ago, MDMAzing said:

Im still confused as to why this org has next to 0 presence on the international market.  You'd of thought they'd fix that years ago.  Guess not...

I'll tell you why: they don't know how to do it. It's not what they grew up learning to do.

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4 hours ago, roarintiger1 said:

The Tigers currently have 7 guys who are/were regular starters who are hitting near or below the Mendoza line.   I thought it was bad when we had one here (Alex Avila), but now the Tigers have 7. 

Something has to change.  Firing Legendary Lloyd would be where I start.  Of course, finding better players is another option. 

TBF, I don't think most of the guys below the Medoza were ever considered part 'the future'. Mercer, Harrison, Hicks, Jones, Greiner, even Niko, were just brought here as filler, bridge bodies. They were chosen more for availability than that they were perfect pieces of the master plan. Same with RR even though they are getting lucky with him so far. The jury is suddenly out again on whether Candelario was a good get. Some of the actual prospect hitters in the org are showing flashes of better bat skill - Cameron, Lugo, Hill (at last), Rogers, W Castro, Paredes. As a team Erie is in the bottom half of their league for Ks and about average for BB. The situation is not without hope - just too far away in light of the assets they moved that should have done more to shorten the process and there is not enough of the good mixed with the mediocre.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I'll tell you why: they don't know how to do it. It's not what they grew up learning to do.

Didn't Avila literally grow up around the Dodger org? Haven't they always worked Latin America?

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I'll tell you why: they don't know how to do it. It's not what they grew up learning to do.

Look I'll bash AA and the Tigers development team as much as anyone but this is not true. AA was an international scout in his younger days and when he was with the Marlins had a few hits including Miggy

And they have had a few hits here like Saurez, Adames, and Jimenez here. Probably says something that the only good positional guys they signed recently developed after they traded them. They just haven't had very many. Has Detroit had a SP come out of latin america since DD and AA arrived? The Braves have very good prospects coming up every year it seems.

IMO it is part that they have a spread the money around approach to international signings. They would rather sign ten 5'9 middle infielders and 6'0 pitchers than a a couple of top guys. And part is they just don't develop hitters very effectively.

They do the same thing with the draft, they concentrate on college players, their top 30 BA list had just 4 high school guys. Although that's probably Chaad trying to find the next Dustin Predioa.

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