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DumberAndLeaner

So, what's up with Miguelito?

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2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I question the narrative that Dh'ing will help him stay healthier.  I think if he is going to get injured it's going to be swinging and/or running the bases.  In fact staying loose out in the field may actually help him vs. trying to stay loose in the dugout for the 95% of the game where he's not hitting.   

Hasn't he in fact gotten hurt several times swinging and running? Seems to be a relevant point you make.

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12 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I question the narrative that Dh'ing will help him stay healthier.  I think if he is going to get injured it's going to be swinging and/or running the bases.  In fact staying loose out in the field may actually help him vs. trying to stay loose in the dugout for the 95% of the game where he's not hitting.   

So don't run the bases hard.  Just jog from one base to the next.  

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On 3/6/2019 at 7:52 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

the thing is that Ortiz is a not a good comp to Cabrera. Ortiz's glove was his sworn enemy from the day he made the big leagues, not the least of the reasons MN was so willing to let him go. David never cared to play the field.

Cabrera grew up as shortstop, outgrew that and went to the OF, back to 3rd and ultimately to 1st, but he has always seen himself as two way player, and as a matter of fact he is not a bad 1B at all. Asking Cabrera to be David Ortiz is possible, but it's a bigger ask than it ever was for Ortiz himself.

Plus the point stands that as long as Cabrera is going to swing hard and run the bases, he is far better protected from injury by dedication to his workout regimen than by DH'ing.

All that said, he will probably come around in his own time when playing 1st starts feeling harder so to me it's probably counter productive to push him on it all that much.

I don't know why you can't have a strong workout regime while DH'ing.  In fact, I would think most current DH's have one.

I don't question that Cabrera wants to play first.  Or that it is a big ask of him to play DH.  That doesn't change my mind though that it is best for the team for him to DH. 

It's all speculation but I have hard time believing that if it was presented to Cabrera the right way, he would refuse to play DH.  

 

 

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I think if Cabrera only DHed, he could stay fresh and also concentrate on staying limber between at bats.  Playing in the field can take a lot out of big guy like Cabrera as he gets older.  As Gehringer pointed out though, the most important thing for him regardless of where he plays is probably conditioning.    

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22 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I question the narrative that Dh'ing will help him stay healthier.  I think if he is going to get injured it's going to be swinging and/or running the bases.  In fact staying loose out in the field may actually help him vs. trying to stay loose in the dugout for the 95% of the game where he's not hitting.   

agree; Thome had to stretch his back both before and during games to keep loose.

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My take away from this thread: Miguel is going to basically die if he plays an inning of first base. 

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13 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

My take away from this thread: Miguel is going to basically die if he plays an inning of first base. 

My take away from this thread: ..these fans just want Miguel to stay healthy for a full season.

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13 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

My take away from this thread: Miguel is going to basically die if he plays an inning of first base. 

My take: paranoid fans want to see him play everyday for their own satisfaction rather than doing what's right for him. 

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15 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

My take away from this thread: ..these fans just want Miguel to stay healthy for a full season.

Him playing first base is not gonna kill him. You guys make it seem like hes gonna die if he plays first.

As far as I can remember he didnt blow up his bicep going to cover the bag or roll his ankle reaching for a ground ball. I think everybody is way way way to worried about him playing first and thing if he only plays 50 games there it's some magical elixir to keep him healthy for 150 games 

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9 minutes ago, Yoda said:

My take: paranoid fans want to see him play everyday for their own satisfaction rather than doing what's right for him. 

I want miguel to do what miguel wants to do. If he want to play first so be it

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So, which side is which?  Is the "Cabrera should be allowed to play 1B all the time" side the pearl clutchers and the "Cabrera should only be a DH" side the bubble wrappers?

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

My take: paranoid fans want to see him play everyday for their own satisfaction rather than doing what's right for him. 

Why are these fans paranoid exactly?

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5 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

StrawMan.jpg

Cabrera has put on a few pounds. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Cabrera has put on a few pounds. 

the high fiber diet hasn't been good for him.

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On 3/8/2019 at 12:45 PM, Keepleyland2 said:

I want miguel to do what miguel wants to do. If he want to play first so be it

Watching that grounder scoot by his ankles into right field tonight, I don't think that asking him to play at least half of his games at DH would harm the team any.

Now since the team isn't interested in winning, I understand this is all meaningless, and if he allowed 10 grounders a night to whizz past him each night, it wouldn't be any great loss, but it's still painful to watch Gordo limbering through the motions as though he's on time delay.

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2 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Watching that grounder scoot by his ankles into right field tonight, I don't think that asking him to play at least half of his games at DH would harm the team any.

Now since the team isn't interested in winning, I understand this is all meaningless, and if he allowed 10 grounders a night to whizz past him each night, it wouldn't be any great loss, but it's still painful to watch Gordo limbering through the motions as though he's on time delay.

To be fair, Miggy did make a pretty good play earlier in the game.  He's kinda a mixed bag on defense.  Sometimes he makes good plays, other times it makes you wonder if he should ever play defense again.  

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Truthfully? I wish him all the best! Nothing would make me happier than to see him have another MVP season.

But I'm shocked over how plump he's become. He hasn't spent the last year trying to stay in shape,  

I'm sure that he personally only wants what is best for the team. 9_9

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50 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

 it makes you wonder if he should ever play defense again.  

Hey, you're the guy with all the stats, what is Miggy's career dWAR?

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:25 AM, Shelton said:

Cabrera has put on a few pounds. 

He's fat and he's gonna be hurt. Lose some weight man.

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8 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Hey, you're the guy with all the stats, what is Miggy's career dWAR?

Most first basemen have a negative dWAR because of the negative positional adjustment, so it could be misleading.  Miggy's career dWAR is -141.7, but it also includes time at third base (where he was one of the worst fielders in the league), LF, and RF.  

Cabrera is an example where DRS and UZR disagree.  Since 2014, Cabrera has been the 2nd worst defender at 1B with -13 (Jose Abreu has -18).  Using UZR, he is around average at 2.4.  According to RZR, Miggy has the worst range at .753.  

Brandon Belt has been the best defender at 1B according to all 3 stats.  

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=4000&type=1&season=2018&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=13,a

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Thanks Bobrob,

Yeah, I knew that first base  was not a place where they put players with high defensive skill, I was just curious of how Miggy compared to his peers, and you nailed it pretty good.

Really, he doesn't have much of an argument to refuse an assignment to DH, if such a request was made of him. His hands are not quick.

At some point you have to consider what purpose is served having Miggy on the team. Clearly he is not going to be leading us to any championships, anytime soon. He doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who mingles with the rooks, sharing his insights in order to make them a better player.  Even "winning games" seems pretty far off the organizational priority list....  SO I guess that leaves  compiling statistics.

I'd like to see Miggy finish his career as high as possible in the significant offensive stat categories. And at this stage, particularly with respect to all the playing time he has to date lost to injuries , I think that a move to DH would serve that ambition well.

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Just based upon the current roster.   Does Miggy being in the line-up make you any more inclined to attend a Tigers game versus if he was not?

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