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Gehringer_2

February 2019 Game Thread

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3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

At least the Kings have 2 banners to show for their current ****uation.

 

And the Wings have 4, the Hawks have 3 and even the Ducks have 1.  So no one will shed tears for any of those fanbases. Imagine being a fan of the Canucks, Sabres, Sens, Panthers or Coyotes.  Purgatory teams like Minnesota, Dallas, Philly and NY Rangers are in a tough spot as well.

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13 hours ago, Hongbit said:

They have some nice pieces to build around up front but they need a ton of help on the blue line.   The defense is old with too many guys past their prime.  They haven’t done a good job of getting young guys in the mix and there are only a couple prospects that may be ready to step in and play next year.  That’s just not enough as  it can take years to develop players you can trust to make the right decisions in your top 6.  

If we're not picking top 2, I want Broberg or Byram.

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13 hours ago, Hongbit said:

They have some nice pieces to build around up front but they need a ton of help on the blue line.   The defense is old with too many guys past their prime.  They haven’t done a good job of getting young guys in the mix and there are only a couple prospects that may be ready to step in and play next year.  That’s just not enough as  it can take years to develop players you can trust to make the right decisions in your top 6.  

I said before that they will have to complete any championship calibre defense via trades and free agency. But that's not the end of the world. We didn't draft Chelios, Murphy, Rafalsky etc.

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30 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I said before that they will have to complete any championship calibre defense via trades and free agency. But that's not the end of the world. We didn't draft Chelios, Murphy, Rafalsky etc.

But ideally that would be to add one piece. Say one up front and one at the back end.

You need to have at least a decent corps of defensemen to start with. Same with forwards. You swing a trade or make a key FA signing and add one key defenseman and/or one key forward to put your team over the top. Trying to add multiple players becomes prohibitively expensive in today's capped out world...

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2 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

But ideally that would be to add one piece. Say one up front and one at the back end.

You need to have at least a decent corps of defensemen to start with. Same with forwards. You swing a trade or make a key FA signing and add one key defenseman and/or one key forward to put your team over the top. Trying to add multiple players becomes prohibitively expensive in today's capped out world...

Pretty much, but there is still a reasonable path to follow. Say we want to be optimist and assume that in two seasons we still have Greene, Hronek, Cholowski, and DeKeyser as regulars. That is basically a 3-6 unless one of the youngs guys has an unforeseen breakthrough - so you are going to need at least two good Dmen from outside. I can see one from free agency, and trade of xs picks and front line depth bringing the other. I don't think the mechanics of getting 2 short term Dmen is to big a hurdle, it's going to be using the picks they have accumulated successfully enough to have the value in the system available to trade.

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With the Kings' win this afternoon, the Wings will finish the night 2nd worst overall in the NHL unless they come back from a 2-goal 3rd deficit in Arizona. Some dude named Vinnie Hinostroza has 5 assists in his past 2 games for the Coyotes, including a pair tonight.

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it would be nice if we could get the puck out of our own zone...

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On 2/28/2019 at 1:09 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

Pretty much, but there is still a reasonable path to follow. Say we want to be optimist and assume that in two seasons we still have Greene, Hronek, Cholowski, and DeKeyser as regulars. That is basically a 3-6 unless one of the youngs guys has an unforeseen breakthrough - so you are going to need at least two good Dmen from outside. I can see one from free agency, and trade of xs picks and front line depth bringing the other. I don't think the mechanics of getting 2 short term Dmen is to big a hurdle, it's going to be using the picks they have accumulated successfully enough to have the value in the system available to trade.

In two years, if our D-Corps is centered around Cholowski, Green, Hronek and DeKeyser, I will not be very happy. We have high-end talented prospects that need to push Green and DeKeyser out the door. At least one of them. And the other to the bottom of the rotation (5-6 pairing, not top 4...). And we're picking at the top of the draft again this year.

We need growth from current prospects, and another high impact draftee this year IMO. In two years, I want to see Hronek-Cholowski-McIsaac-Gustov Lindstrom-2019 Draftee as our top 5 (I would love that to be Byram or Broberg, but if not... 2nd rounder...). You can pick a bottom two out of Bowey-DeKeyser-Green-Sulak-Saarijarvi-Etc...

If you need to add a top 4 D-man to cover a shortfall or add high end talent for whatever reason, so be it... But I'm still looking at adding one player there, not two...

Just my 2 cents...

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1 hour ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

We have high-end talented prospects that need to push Green and DeKeyser out the door.

This may depend a lot on whether Yzerman shares the same philosophy about young d-men that Holland (and for that matter Bowman in his time) believe in, which is that you don't win championships in the NHL without experienced D-men. If it is still Holland, I'm sure that nothing would make him happier than for guys like McIsaac to become #1 level guys, but I don't think KH is going to want to have to count on them to actually fill those top spots until they have more miles on their odometers, which is why for now I tend to see more trades as likely than you do as the front line talent reaches playoff critical mass. If it ends  up being Yzerman running the show, that might change certainly. I can't claim to have followed Tampa Bay closely enough to know if the Yzerman FO had the same kind of biases about young defensemen we have had in Det.

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On 3/3/2019 at 8:00 AM, 84 Lives!!! said:

We need growth from current prospects, and another high impact draftee this year IMO. In two years, I want to see Hronek-Cholowski-McIsaac-Gustov Lindstrom-2019 Draftee as our top 5 (I would love that to be Byram or Broberg, but if not... 2nd rounder...). You can pick a bottom two out of Bowey-DeKeyser-Green-Sulak-Saarijarvi-Etc...

I have a feeling the Wings are gonna lose one of Lindstrom or Saarijarvi to Seattle sadly

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In another post where I steal from HF boards:

Quote

Joe Veleno, 99 pts in 53 game and a +61. Imagine him hitting +70 at the end of the year! 
Crosby is the last one to hit more than +70, with +78 (2004-2005), it would be quite a feat.

From the weekend:

Quote

PPG and 2 Assists for McIsaac tonight in an 8-4 Loss... Up to 59 Points (15 Goals) in 46 Games

Quote

Regula with another one a PP Empty Net Goal in 3-1 Win for London this afternoon... Now in 61 Games 37 Points (10 Goals) +32... Seems like we got a pretty good prospect in the 3rd Round.... He had 25 Points all of last year.

And a highlight package from Kivenmaki's game on Saturday including a shootout goal:

 

 

I'm honestly starting to sort of believe in him as a prospect more than a meme with how he's doing against Men in Finland right now....

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The Wings to seem to have a promising amount of talent in the pipeline.

So it would seem Holland suddenly remembered how the do the draft thing again in the last few years? How would that be? That when they had a line-up they figured kids couldn't crack they didn't bother scouting as hard? Has Chris Ilitch put more money into scouting at the Wings as he has at the Tigers?

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Most of them won't become anything.  Nature of prospects.

Wings have typically had a solid farm system under Holland.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The Wings to seem to have a promising amount of talent in the pipeline.

So it would seem Holland suddenly remembered how the do the draft thing again in the last few years? How would that be? That when they had a line-up they figured kids couldn't crack they didn't bother scouting as hard? Has Chris Ilitch put more money into scouting at the Wings as he has at the Tigers?

I would say Biggs nailed it, just how prospects go.  The Wings were incredibly lucky that they hit on Datsyuk and Zetterberg (and to a lesser extent guys like Franzen) when the superstars of the previous generation were phased out.  They were bound to drop off in prospect talent just from the sheer fact that they were so successful previously, and now they don't even have advantages of scouting smaller leagues like the used to since every team is doing this now.

Also, FWIW Biggs also nailed that the hockey world has generally thought of the Wings' prospect pool as strong even into these recent lean years.  There was a time when Breandan Smith, XO, and Sproul were touted as great D prospects kind of like we have now (Smith had NCAA success, XO and Sproul both won awards in the Q I believe?).  Smith never developed any sort of hockey smarts at the pro level, XO never improved his skating to the point it needed to be at for the NHL, and Sproul never developed his defensive instincts imo.  Nyquist and Tatar were thought of as taking the torch from Z and Datsyuk and that never really happened.  Before Hockey's Future gave up on rankings, Wings were ranked 9th overall by them in 2015/2016, here's their write up which is kinda fun:

 

Strengths: The Detroit Red Wings have impressive depth at every position, particularly on the wings. Among the 17 winger prospects, there are seven or eight that could see time in the NHL soon or have already had a cup of coffee with the top club. On defense, the Wings added to their depth with the free agent signing of Robbie Russo, who failed to sign with the New York Islanders. Russo joins free agent signing Joe Hicketts and borderline NHL defendersRyan Sproul and Xavier Ouellet.

Weaknesses: Detroit has four goaltending prospects, but none are particularly highly regarded. That said, recent performances suggest some of the Wings goaltenders might be developing at a good pace as Jared Coreau has looked good in Grand Rapids this season and last, and Jake Paterson is handling the rigors of pro life. The Wings are a little shallow down the middle, particularly once Dylan Larkin graduates from prospect status. Dominic Turgeon and Louis-Marc Aubry are both 6’4” and 210+ pounds, but don’t have the talent to become a top-six center at the NHL level.

Top 5 Prospects: 1. Dylan Larkin, C; 2. Teemu Pulkkinen, RW; 3. Evgeny Svechnikov, LW; 4. Anthony Mantha, RW; 5. Ryan Sproul, D

Key Additions: Evgeny Svechnikov (Draft), Vili Saarijarvi (Draft), Robbie Russo (Free agent)

Key Losses: Petr Mrazek (Graduation), Mattias Janmark (Trade – DAL), Mattias Backman (Trade – DAL)

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