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He sure does. 

Rememver during the strike in 94 when he showed up to player meetings in a limo?  

He took some **** for it but in typical Lou fashion said “I’m rich.  I have a limo.  What else am I supposed to drive”. Something to that effect.  He also owned a recording studio and they used that for clients.  It was their only car. 

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The wikipedia article on Whitaker says this:

Whitaker (and other players who played during the "Today's Game" era of 1988 to the present) could've been considered by the Veterans Committee in 2018, but he was not one of the ten that made the ballot. (His old Detroit teammates, Trammell and Jack Morris, did make the ballot and both were elected.) The "Today's Game" electors will meet again in 2021 and 2023.

I'm not saying it's true, though.  And like anyone who grew up watching Whitaker play, there's no doubt he's among the best second basemen in MLB history.  

~Kari

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I got my info from the HOF website itself so I would go with that...

I can see how someone could make that mistake on wikipedia since there's 4 committees so you'd think they would rotate by year but the more recent ones go twice before the older ones go.

 

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we need to all get over the fact that baines is in and stop saying that if baines is in then x should be in.

baines is in because of larussa and reinsdorf.  thats it.  everyone knows he doesnt belong there, he's now a punchline.

one could argue that he is even less qualified than jack morris..../ducks

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

we need to all get over the fact that baines is in and stop saying that if baines is in then x should be in.

baines is in because of larussa and reinsdorf.  thats it.  everyone knows he doesnt belong there, he's now a punchline.

one could argue that he is even less qualified than jack morris..../ducks

That's true about Baines and quite a few others.  I think it's fair to say if player x is better than half (or some similar threshold)  the hall of famers at his position then he belongs.  

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I'm not sure on that but that says more about Morris than it does about Baines.

The guy topped out at 6%.... granted I can't use that as a baseline since Lou didn't even get 5 but that's generally considered the worst one and done of all time.  If he stayed on the ballot he'd have gotten as much support as Trammell over the years.  It was a total fluke he didn't get to stay on and I assume most writers just figured they'd deal with it the next season... that he'd get to stay on.

I really never heard anyone suggest Baines should be in the HOF. 

 

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I heard some talk about Baines making the the HoF if he could reach 3,000 hits, but he didn't reach it and I never heard it since he retired.  He came out of nowhere.  There has been quite a bit of talk, most of it very positive, about Whitaker making the HoF.  The problem is that most of it has come from sabers and I get the feeling the committee doesn't care a lot about saber stuff.  One thing that he has in his favor is his strong association with Trammell.  

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 10:53 AM, Oblong said:

I recall in one of the abstracts by Bill James that he ranked Evans very high.  In fact I think he said he was at the time the most underrated player in history.  It was either an abstract or his great Hall of Fame book.

It was his historical abstract published in 2000. 

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

I'm not sure on that but that says more about Morris than it does about Baines.

The guy topped out at 6%.... granted I can't use that as a baseline since Lou didn't even get 5 but that's generally considered the worst one and done of all time.  If he stayed on the ballot he'd have gotten as much support as Trammell over the years.  It was a total fluke he didn't get to stay on and I assume most writers just figured they'd deal with it the next season... that he'd get to stay on.

I really never heard anyone suggest Baines should be in the HOF. 

 

i wasnt saying that as an argument that baines should be in and that whitaker shouldnt.  i think whitaker has a strong case on the merits.  i think baines has always had a very weak to non-existent case.

my point was that i dont think we should say "if baines is in whitaker has to get in."  baines is in because of favoritism by his former coach and owner, it has almost nothing to do with merit.  the committee wont look at whitaker and say "well, he's better than baines so we have to put him in." if that were the criteria than almost all the players on all of these vet committee ballots would be locks.

personally i think whitaker is a borderline candidate but a good vet committee candidate.  he was good to very good for a very long time.  that says something even if he was never truly one of the greats in any one season.

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In the mid-1960s I was visiting my sister over the summer in upstate New York and she took me to Cooperstown. I can’t imagine how much it’s changed in that time. Museum curation is of a totally different order now than 50 years ago. I remember how cool I thought it was back then to just step on the final home plate from Ebbets Field.  I’ve got this dream that I’m going to travel some this summer and I would love to fit that in and see what they have about the Tigers there. 

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17 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

In the mid-1960s I was visiting my sister over the summer in upstate New York and she took me to Cooperstown. I can’t imagine how much it’s changed in that time. Museum curation is of a totally different order now than 50 years ago. I remember how cool I thought it was back then to just step on the final home plate from Ebbets Field.  I’ve got this dream that I’m going to travel some this summer and I would love to fit that in and see what they have about the Tigers there. 

I think it probably has changed less than you expect.  I have been there decades apart and nothing changes much including the town, which is part of what I like about it.  

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

personally i think whitaker is a borderline candidate but a good vet committee candidate.  he was good to very good for a very long time.  that says something even if he was never truly one of the greats in any one season.

There's an argument for your position, a weak one in my opinion but an argument.   He was consistently one of the top 2nd basemen in MLB for nearly 2 decades.   When you're ranked 7th in career WAR it's hard to deny you're one of the best of all time.  If you go by WAR7 for his peak he falls to 21st which would support your argument, but I think being consistently very good for a long time is it's own argument in favor of Lou.   

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2 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

I think being consistently very good for a long time is it's own argument in favor of Lou.   

Not for nothing, I have heard that same argument for Baines by the few who’ve made one. 

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16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Not for nothing, I have heard that same argument for Baines by the few who’ve made one. 

It's a weak argument in Baines' case.  He had one season above 3 WAR.  Whitaker had 15 of them

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2 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

There's an argument for your position, a weak one in my opinion but an argument.   He was consistently one of the top 2nd basemen in MLB for nearly 2 decades.   When you're ranked 7th in career WAR it's hard to deny you're one of the best of all time.  If you go by WAR7 for his peak he falls to 21st which would support your argument, but I think being consistently very good for a long time is it's own argument in favor of Lou.   

i think war is a garbage stat, but it is what it is.

whitaker was a compiler, always good or really good but never great.  it depends on what you want in a hall of fame: guys who were the best of the best if even for a short period of time?  or guys who were really good for a long period of time?

or guys who knew jerry reinsdorf.  your choice.

was whitaker ever one of the top players in baseball?  top 10?  i doubt it.  maybe once?  he also did real well at the end of his career as a dh against righties with a short porch in tiger stadium.

again, him and bobby grich are good veterans committee guys or "big hall" guys, but not the top players imo.  

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2 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

 but I think being consistently very good for a long time is it's own argument in favor of Lou.   

And it's not like recognizing very-good-for-a-long-time would be anything new at the HOF.

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

It's a weak argument in Baines' case.  He had one season above 3 WAR.  Whitaker had 15 of them

Yes, that's true, although people who are just dipping their toe in the water on advanced metrics might counter that Baines had a 108 OPS+ or better for nineteen consecutive seasons, i.e., no slump seasons.

Not arguing for Baines, of course. He definitely does not belong in the Hall either in terms of career performance or of level of fame (the latter of which Morris has going for him, at least).  Just highlighting how someone could justify the consistency line of argument.

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baines was consistently slightly above average for a dh.  in fact, he wasnt even always slightly above average for that position considering he brought 0 value in the field.

and when whitaker transitioned to more of a dh role later in his career in his late 30s, he was STILL better than baines was as a dh in baines' prime.

i know i make fun of morris being in the hall because i dont think he belongs, but he is sure as heck more deserving than harold freaking baines.

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20 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think war is a garbage stat, but it is what it is.

whitaker was a compiler, always good or really good but never great.  it depends on what you want in a hall of fame: guys who were the best of the best if even for a short period of time?  or guys who were really good for a long period of time?

or guys who knew jerry reinsdorf.  your choice.

was whitaker ever one of the top players in baseball?  top 10?  i doubt it.  maybe once?  he also did real well at the end of his career as a dh against righties with a short porch in tiger stadium.

again, him and bobby grich are good veterans committee guys or "big hall" guys, but not the top players imo.  

WAR is a flawed stat, but it is good enough to show that Whitaker was a MUCH better player than Baines.  I think it works fairly well for measuring long careers where variations in fielding level get washed out over time.  You need to look at other things besides WAR, but it serves as a good  baseline.   

Whitaker was a compiler but he compiled better than most compilers.  He was not a great player in any one year, but he played at a really high level for a long time having more good to very good years than the majority of Hall of Fame infielders.    

He only played 32 games as a DH.  He platooned a lot at the end, but lots of guys are protected at the ends of their careers and it's hard to compile when you are getting platooned.  I think you are seeing warts because you are too close to the Tigers.  Some fans go in the opposite direction. 

He is not among the greatest of the greatest.  If you like a small Hall of Fame, then it's fair to leave him out, but in reality the Hall of Fame is not small.  I think you can make a strong argument that he is as good or better than half the HoF second basemen.  

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21 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

  I think you can make a strong argument that he is as good or better than half the HoF second basemen.  

this is really the most determination argument to me. You have to be in the hall if you are better than the average HOFer at your position.

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5 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I think it probably has changed less than you expect.  I have been there decades apart and nothing changes much including the town, which is part of what I like about it.  

So, there is no Holodeck where you play on a field of dreams with Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Satchel Paige?  If it is still archaic, is the gum I like still in style at the concession stand at least?

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9 hours ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

The committee that voted Baines in needs to be dismantled and rethought. It's obviously not working.

THe committees change from ballot to ballot.

There's one that nominates people and another that actually votes.  Don't think they've announced that yet for 2019.

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 10:50 AM, chasfh said:

I can't see any way Lou is not named to the Hall of Fame by the committee. I'm wondering whether Darrell Evans stands any decent chance? Normally I'd say it's extremely unlikely, but Harold Baines, so, get the right guys on the committee and just about anything could happen. Trammell-to-Whitaker-to-Evans would be a better trio in the Hall than Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance.

IF Darrell Evans gets in the HOF, they just are running out of people to put in there.  He would be one of the worst players in there by a long stretch.

As it is now it is simply turning into a hall of good players and above average guys.  Harold Baines?  John Smoltz?  Roy Holladay?  Mike Mussina?  Those guys were good players, but really?  The HOF should be for the elite players, not the good players 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:34 PM, Oblong said:

I'm not sure on that but that says more about Morris than it does about Baines.

The guy topped out at 6%.... granted I can't use that as a baseline since Lou didn't even get 5 but that's generally considered the worst one and done of all time.  If he stayed on the ballot he'd have gotten as much support as Trammell over the years.  It was a total fluke he didn't get to stay on and I assume most writers just figured they'd deal with it the next season... that he'd get to stay on.

I really never heard anyone suggest Baines should be in the HOF. 

 

Harold Baines didn't even suggest that Harold Baines should be in the Hall of Fame.

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