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The National Emergency Over the Wall

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

But the majority of Americans don't want a wall. Why do we have to negotiate with a tyrant who wants a wall that Americans don't want? 

Again. What is so offensive about a wall? Are you worried about resale value? You know, the country is no longer aesthetically pleasing or after we put it up? Should have installed that hedge row of arbor vitae instead?

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35 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

I'm sorry, I was playing 4d chess with you. That's why you didn't get it.

I was talking about RBG's successor being nominated by Trump, which at that point, would provide a 6-3 majority by the time any real challenge on the wall/national emergency would come along. I'm not suggesting some crazy conspiracy with RBG has anything to do with this 3 week delay. But then again, 3 weeks are 3 weeks. Time is your friend, particularly when you'd also need to bake in the outrage flavor of the month  the democrats would put up against whatever judge Trump nominates. 

Oh so you did totally make it up.

Your fiction is always boring so I stopped reading it

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Just now, pfife said:

Oh so you did totally make it up.

Your fiction is always boring so I stopped reading it

Yes, it was a total hypothetical. Because 85 year old people with lung cancer who have not shown up to work in a month or been heard from/seen in public are known to regularly bounce right back.

It was a complete, far fetched hypothetical. My bad.

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The most interesting thing from Ann Coulter’s appearance on Bill Maher tonight was her support for AOC’s tax on the rich. Disown Coulter or embrace Sandy....how will MAGA-Land respond? 

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1 hour ago, stanpapi said:

I think what we'll find out is that it takes 2/3rds of congress (both chambers) to overrule the emergency. And best of luck with a 6-3 SCOTUS. At that point, we'd have room for a roberts defection, if it would even come to that. 

By the way, in the senate, (that meaningless chamber), they just received 2 new shiny conservative nominees to the 9th circuit this week.

Who said the Senate was meaningless?  

 

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6 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

The most interesting thing from Ann Coulter’s appearance on Bill Maher tonight was her support for AOC’s tax on the rich. Disown Coulter or embrace Sandy....how will MAGA-Land respond? 

Sometimes it takes trying times to flush out who your friends are.

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Just now, stanpapi said:

Sometimes it takes trying times to flush out who your friends are.

Coulter did not sound like as much of a friend to Trump as usual tonight. That’s probably due to no funding for The Wall, plus some conforming to Mahar and his show (they go back to the Politically Incorrect days). MAGA-Land is her bread and butter, so she’ll be back to form in short order. 

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13 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

Yes, it was a total hypothetical. Because 85 year old people with lung cancer who have not shown up to work in a month or been heard from/seen in public are known to regularly bounce right back.

It was a complete, far fetched hypothetical. My bad.

Thanks for admitting it.  That's big of you.

But I was talking about the case being decided 6-3

 

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Just now, Euphdude said:

Coulter did not sound like as much of a friend to Trump as usual tonight. That’s probably due to no funding for The Wall, plus some conforming to Mahar and his show (they go back to the Politically Incorrect days). MAGA-Land is her bread and butter, so she’ll be back to form in short order. 

There's likely no going back for her. Everyone makes choices. Maybe she can enjoy a plate of frog legs with Mitt Romney some night in DC.

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It appears that we've got a prediction, that in 3 weeks if he doesn't get wall funding, he declares a state of emergency.  Is this the prediction?

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51 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

this is pretty incomplete reading of the history. For Obama's entire 2nd term, there was a consensus for comprehensive immigration reform between the WH, the GOP Senate, and the Democratic minority in the House that would have included things like border enforcement and security upgrades. And in fact that consensus extended to enough GOP House members to have passed the legislation in the House, but it was the GOP "Hastert Rule" and the intransigence of the GOP TeaParty/Freedom Caucus wing that prevented any reform from seeing the light of day in the House. Had Boehner/Ryan ever allowed a free vote on immigration reform Trump would never have been elected. The GOP made their bed, now they are stuck with it.

This is a good reading of the history. 

In general, I think the Democrats have done a poor job communicating their positions and subsequently let the Republicans define what they stand for. That's not limited to this issue either.

One of the more satisfying things in Michael Bennet's Senate rant yesterday was taking Ted Cruz to task for basically saying Dems want open borders despite that not being true. There needs to be more of that... start defining your views and stop letting the opposition define you.

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4 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

There's likely no going back for her. Everyone makes choices. Maybe she can enjoy a plate of frog legs with Mitt Romney some night in DC.

Interesting observation - do you really think the MAGA movement is done with Coulter? She has Trump on puppet strings and could continue to be useful to you and the causes you care about. 

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1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I think the Democrats have done a poor job communicating their positions and subsequently let the Republicans define what they stand for. That's not limited to this issue either.

Dems got very sloppy and careless about messaging during the Obama years, and they’ve been suffering for years as a result. Only time will tell if they learned any lessons. 

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3 minutes ago, pfife said:

It appears that we've got a prediction, that in 3 weeks if he doesn't get wall funding, he declares a state of emergency.  Is this the prediction?

I think it's a bluff. And Nancy will likely call it, like she did the last one.

Whether that means national emergency, that's up to President Caveman

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9 minutes ago, pfife said:

It appears that we've got a prediction, that in 3 weeks if he doesn't get wall funding, he declares a state of emergency.  Is this the prediction?

I think this is the likeliest scenario as of now. Legally it doesn’t stand a chance of being enacted, but I don’t think Trump cares as much about the legalities of an national emergency than showing his base concrete proof that he’s taken legislative action to build the wall (that Mexico is supposed to pay for). 

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24 minutes ago, pfife said:

It appears that we've got a prediction, that in 3 weeks if he doesn't get wall funding, he declares a state of emergency.  Is this the prediction?

No. It’s what trump said.

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1 hour ago, stanpapi said:

Look, grandma and chucky are already on record as saying that they wouldn't negotiate the wall even if he opened the government. That was what they said at the meeting he walked out of. He already knows their answer. The three weeks are a facade. But he can give people their paychecks, give a state of the union making the case in prime time for a national emergency, sign it and declare victory. He gets the wall and the democrats get nothing. Unless they change their position. Then maybe they would get something. But otherwise, he goes around them.

Be careful what you wish for Stan.  Once Trump sets the national emergency precedent, the next Democrat President is doing the same thing in a couple of years.   

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3 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Be careful what you wish for Stan.  Once Trump sets the national emergency precedent, the next Democrat President is doing the same thing in a couple of years.   

His argument is the SC will have 6 Republican judges by then that would both accept Trump’s national emergency and deny a Dem POTUS national emergency....because the SC is now an extension of the Republican Party in the eyes of Trumpers. 

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7 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

No. It’s what trump said.

So you don't have the Roger stones to believe your guy again?

This reminds me of when you said he never said Mexico would directly pay but it was on his website that they would directly pay?

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4 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

His argument is the SC will have 6 Republican judges by then that would both accept Trump’s national emergency and deny a Dem POTUS national emergency....because the SC is now an extension of the Republican Party in the eyes of Trumpers. 

No, I said they’d have to cite statute  and be able to support it. If they did it for a crackpot non- national security reason SCOTUS would presumably have comment on that.

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22 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

I think this is the likeliest scenario as of now. Legally it doesn’t stand a chance of being enacted, but I don’t think Trump cares as much about the legalities of an national emergency than showing his base concrete proof that he’s taken legislative action to build the wall (that Mexico is supposed to pay for). 

The wall is all about messaging for 2020 for Trump... the national emergency declaration, however likely it is to be blown-up by the courts (who knows, I'm not a lawyer), is an off-ramp for him to go to his base and claim that he's fought for the wall come 2020.

At this point, I dont see much more he can do. I suspect that he may think there are some Dem votes he can peel off in the House and Senate, perhaps. But Dems appear to be largely unified at this point -- aside from Joe Manchin and Collin Peterson, I can't think of any that have really endorsed giving him wall money.

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6 minutes ago, pfife said:

So you don't have the Roger stones to believe your guy again?

This reminds me of when you said he never said Mexico would directly pay but it was on his website that they would directly pay?

It’s really simple. You said it was a prediction. I said it’s not a prediction of mine, it’s what Trump said. Something you’d probably know if you had listened to him. But neither did the faux party dems. 

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