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chasfh

The 116th United States Congress (2019-2021)

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2 hours ago, pfife said:

socialism has no ruling class.   When DSA says "government working with" they're already not socialism as the government is the ruling class.

 

 

That should be a bumper sticker.  Let's break this down.

Your first statement; socialism has no ruling class.

Your second; When DSA says "government working with" they're already not socialism as the government is the ruling class.

Got it.

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6 minutes ago, screwball said:

That should be a bumper sticker.  Let's break this down.

Your first statement; socialism has no ruling class.

Your second; When DSA says "government working with" they're already not socialism as the government is the ruling class.

Got it.

I'm sensing sarcasm but what I said is not unclear or contradictory, especially the part you bolded.   When DSA says it wants to work with the government, that's not socialism.  It's democratic socialism.   In socialism there is no government, there is no ruling class.  There are no classes.

Democratic socialists want reformed gov and reformed capitalism.

Socialists want none of either.

Pretty straight forward and not contradictory.

   

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5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Who cares what it's called? Lets just be like Norway and be done with it. 

I care

 

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Quote

Socialism means us ALL owning the ‘Means of Production’. No ruling class or leader. Work simply to meet society’s needs. Free access to all goods and services.

https://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB

No ruling class or leader means no one to impose a 70% tax like she suppports.  Thus, AOC is not socialist.  Straight forward.  And..... from their feed:

 

 

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10 minutes ago, screwball said:

Who makes the rules?

So are we on to whether socialism would work?   What rules?

I'm only talking about the difference between democratic socialism and socialism.  I'm not going to advocate that a government-less society would work.

I'm very specifically arguing that no one in the 116th United States Congress is a socialist, and calling anyone in the 116th United States Congress a socialist is not correct.

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21 minutes ago, pfife said:

 I'm not going to advocate that a government-less society would work.

 

Isn't that want the Libertarians want?  

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I'm just having a little fun. TBH, I like AOC.  I think she's an energetic little fireball; kinda reminds me of my daughter.  I loved the fact she protested outside Pelosi's office.  She could become leader for her generation in congress; after all, you kids are going have to run this ship as us old poops get put in boxes.

Where it will all fall apart is when they get into the "how are you going to pay for this", which is already happening. Nothing new, really.

The article I linked told of her belief in what some of our new age economic people call MMT. This came from when she worked for Bernie, who had an economic advisor named Stephanie Kelton.  She comes from UMKC (University of Missouri/Kansas City) who are well known as experts in that theory.

If I were a democratic strategist, or, a dumb hick from the sticks (who doesn't give one good **** about the tribal war games); drop these MMT cranks, who are blowing smoke up peoples ***, and get what appears to me, solid young people like AOC and Tulsi Gabbord (picture Donald Sutherland in Kelly's Hero's telling that kid "never hear of him" (in this case her)).

Flush the Pelosi's, Chuck (Wall Street) Schumer, and please, that little bald dickwad from CA, and many more I can't remember, down the chute.

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22 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Isn't that want the Libertarians want?  

I'm not a libertarian, nor anything else; only an American.

I don't think anyone, or any belief, thinks there shouldn't be laws/rules/limitations, call it what you want.

What would be even better is if laws actually mattered.

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32 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Isn't that want the Libertarians want?  

Humbug!

Libertarianism is a false and unworkable concept constructed from buzzwords that sound good, (Liberty! Freedom! EnterPrise!) that rich corporatists pay big dollars to disseminate to poorer people in the hope that enough of them buy it to help take pressure off of the completely rational and necessary need to regulate the abuses to the rest of society and the environment that  those with economic power find convenient to their profit making.

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9 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

This is one place we should not look to Europe as the rhetorical model. Socialism has never has the negative connotation there it has here, and  “social democratic” parties have been there for decades and everyone knows what there are. In the US, progressive dems at the national level should avoid using “social democrat” and “democratic socialism” just because they create one more voter education hurdle to overcome. They should probably stick with “progressive” as the primary buzzword. What plays in a local liberal district is another matter.

I prefer "Progressive". Although I'm a Progressive Independent not a Progressive Democrat.

I love Progressives.

Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive Republican. We owe in LARGE part our National Park system to him. As well as many other positives in America (anti-monopoly stance, etc...)

FDR was so progressive he changed to the Democratic Party, pissing off the Teddy Roosevelt side of the family. Democrats have for ever since been known as the Progressive Party.

Trump has sent this country backwards in so many different ways... I want forward progress again. Vote Democrats, 2020!

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7 hours ago, tiger337 said:

My understanding of what people want out of social democracy is that there are some essential items which are taken out of the profit arena such as healthcare and education, but that capitalists can still be capitalists for most things.  I don't think there is any interest in socializing the production and distribution of cars, tv sets, computers, etc.  

Current socialist entities in the U.S.:

The military.

The Police and Fire departments.

Post office.

Water sanitation.

Utilities regulation.

Environmental standards.

Food safety.

Homeland and border security.

Our government.

Probably a long list more... but I hit a few of the highlights...

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3 hours ago, screwball said:

 

I don't think anyone, or any belief, thinks there shouldn't be laws/rules/limitations, call it what you want.

What would be even better is if laws actually mattered.

They matter for some people, but others can buy their way out of them.  

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1 minute ago, pfife said:

 

Ha ha, I knew she was a phony!

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AOC continues to play the game well.  

It's fascinating to see someone with so little power have the ability to get so many people worked up.  

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To be fair... I don't think it's so much that they're women... just that until they came along nobody wanted to think about nude photos of old fat white guys

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3 minutes ago, Oblong said:

To be fair... I don't think it's so much that they're women... just that until they came along nobody wanted to think about nude photos of old fat white guys

With this exception of course...

Image result for trump fat bastard

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4 hours ago, Euphdude said:

AOC continues to play the game well.  

It's fascinating to see someone with so little power have the ability to get so many people worked up.  

I don't agree that she has so little power. She's a good looking young woman who has risen to a public position, which guarantees media attention to start with. That she also actually has brains and a social conscience, and the inclination to demonstrate that, is what's getting the right-wing knuckleheads worked up. It goes against everything they have conditioned themselves to believe that a good-looking young woman is any good for.

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35 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don't agree that she has so little power. She's a good looking young woman who has risen to a public position, which guarantees media attention to start with. That she also actually has brains and a social conscience, and the inclination to demonstrate that, is what's getting the right-wing knuckleheads worked up. It goes against everything they have conditioned themselves to believe that a good-looking young woman is any good for.

The power she has comes from the attention she gets from the right wing.  If AOC proves to be effective, she will lead coalitions and be a member of committees which have the potential to give her legislative and policy creation power -- of which she has little to none at the moment.

That said -- the right wing has spent so much time blasting her over the year that it's unlikely the genie could be put back in the bottle if they decided to ignore her as they should have from the onset.

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11 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don't agree that she has so little power. She's a good looking young woman who has risen to a public position, which guarantees media attention to start with. That she also actually has brains and a social conscience, and the inclination to demonstrate that, is what's getting the right-wing knuckleheads worked up. It goes against everything they have conditioned themselves to believe that a good-looking young woman is any good for.

She's never going to be a very good socialist if she can't look out for the people....in her defense, maybe she doesn't know what worker's comp is...

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-ocasio-cortez-fined-workers-compensation-20190110-story.html

 

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