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Mr.TaterSalad

2019 Offseason + Free Agency Thread

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3 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Pure speculation... hiring someone as experienced as Bevell — a “retread,” some might say — indicates that Quinn doesn’t feel like he has a long enough leash to gamble on a hot, young, offensive mind. 

I know, Quinn said it was Patricia’s decision, but I think they are joined at the hip, and if Quinn doesn’t make the playoffs next year he (and Patricia) will officially be on thin ice. 

In any event, Bevell will be the best OC Stafford has played under. 

I think Patrica wants a more "ball control" style of offense where you grind the defense down, control the clock and overall time of possession. Bevell provides him with this as that's more of what he did with Marshawn Lynch in Seattle and AP in Minnesota. I'd be interested to see time of possession stats for Bevell's offenses in Seattle and Minnesota, I'd guess they would be near the top-end of the league.

If he wanted a more "modern" approach, ie a pass heavy attack that spread it out vertically and stretched the field with longer route combinations than maybe the Lions wait and hire someone like a Shane Waldron from the Rams.

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The successful teams in the league are taking the complete opposite approach on offense than the Lions.   History tells us how this will work out for them. 

Then again, what if had the Lions hired Waldron and tried to replicate the successful systems that are working for everyone else across the league.  History still tells us how this would work out for them.

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I don't think it's fair to assume he is going to run the same style of offense as he did in Seattle.

He had a ground and pound rb, a mobile QB and a strong offensive line, like any good coach he is going to play to their strengths and that's exactly what he did.

Now with the Lions he may feel the need to play differently who knows but I think it's a little premature to just assume he is going to run the same sets and style that he did with a completely different team. 

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Very questionable signing at offensive coordinator. Would like to see a hybid offence. But its the lions. 

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1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The successful teams in the league are taking the complete opposite approach on offense than the Lions.   History tells us how this will work out for them. 

Then again, what if had the Lions hired Waldron and tried to replicate the successful systems that are working for everyone else across the league.  History still tells us how this would work out for them.

Rams are 4th in rush attempts per game. The top five teams in rush attempts per game were Baltimore, Seattle, New England, LA Rams, and New Orleans. All playoff teams so it seems like the successful teams do run the ball a lot. 

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't think it's fair to assume he is going to run the same style of offense as he did in Seattle.

He had a ground and pound rb, a mobile QB and a strong offensive line, like any good coach he is going to play to their strengths and that's exactly what he did.

Now with the Lions he may feel the need to play differently who knows but I think it's a little premature to just assume he is going to run the same sets and style that he did with a completely different team. 

Naw man you are dead wrong. This is a horrible hire as evidenced by historical rankings. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

But he's a retread. We need to hire young, inexperienced coordinator from a high powered offense like Joe Lombardi. 

Ha ha that worked so well for us!

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3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't think it's fair to assume he is going to run the same style of offense as he did in Seattle.

He had a ground and pound rb, a mobile QB and a strong offensive line, like any good coach he is going to play to their strengths and that's exactly what he did.

Now with the Lions he may feel the need to play differently who knows but I think it's a little premature to just assume he is going to run the same sets and style that he did with a completely different team. 

Both of his offensive systems, in Minnesota and Seattle, seemed more geared towards a rushing attack, using the run to open up the pass. I don't expect Bevell to come in here and become Andy Reid all of a sudden, stretching the field vertically with an encyclopedia's worth of route combos. I very much expect the offense he rant with AP in Minnesota or with Lynch and Wilson in Seattle will be what we do here. I think you'll see another power running back added in the off-season to compliment Johnson. I would imagine they'll be going after a big, pass catching tight end who also has blocking ability too.

This offense will be a power run offense, that utilizing the run game to open up play action passing. I think you'll also see Stafford doing more bootlegs and rolling out of the pocket more to allow plays to develop. My fear with Bevell is that Stafford seems most successful when allowed to go no-huddle and kick up the tempo to keep the defense constantly moving and I worry he'll limit that quite a bit, given his leanings towards a more methodical, run-first approach.

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Some more stats on Bevell as the OC in Seattle. During his tenure there, the Seahawks were top ten in yards per play for four straight seasons (6th in ‘12, 10th in ‘13, 6th in ‘14 and 5th in ‘15).

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Seattle was one of the first if not the first team to really emphasise the zone read option and do it effectively, also Bevell used Percy Harvin in ways that hadn't been done before either so this narrative that seems to be running rampant that he has no creativity is false imo.   

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10 hours ago, Hongbit said:

I’d guess that if anyone on this board made national news with the name of their employer prominently mentioned for any type of misconduct away from the job they would at the very least be suspended pending an internal investigation and most likely fired on the spot.  

what people do on their own time is their own business and should not preclude them from having meaningful employment.  someone accused of a crime shouldnt lose their job over it.  

those are matters for the criminal courts to decide.  

i would take tyreek hill and kareem hunt in a second.  there is no reason the nfl should have a morals clause.  its not like a financial industry job where you have a fiduciary duty to someone so your past criminal behavior may preclude you from such a position, its a ******* football player.  who gives a **** if he gets into fights on his own time?

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talent wins, not offensive coordinators.

there is more than one way to win a football game.  you can win by controlling the game with a strong running attack just as sure as you can win with a spread passing attack.

thats not to say that playcalling and coaching dont play a role, but what really wins is talent.  the seahawks won when they had marshawn in his prime a good offensive line and a **** of a defnese. with that you can run the ball and win.  when the line fell apart, they werent good anymore.  shocker.

the lions will win of their line improves, kerryon stays healthy, and - most importantly - stafford plays better than he did this year.

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Seattle was one of the first if not the first team to really emphasise the zone read option and do it effectively, also Bevell used Percy Harvin in ways that hadn't been done before either so this narrative that seems to be running rampant that he has no creativity is false imo.   

From the Seattle Seahawks blog I posted above. . .

Quote

Analysts and fans have long called for Carroll to make Wilson the focal point of the offense, more so than he already has. But even as the Seahawks’ run-pass ratio has flirted with 60-40 in the past two seasons, Carroll has given no indication on the record that he wants to depart from the formula that got him this far. Ball control, clock control, court the explosive play, shy away from unnecessary risks, and wear down the opponent with a strong ground game — these are central tenets to Carroll’s philosophy, stated over and over again.

A 60-40 run/pass ratio during a two season stretch showcases that this guy runs the ball, A LOT! With that, I don't expect to see the kind of offensive creativity you get from an Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.

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13 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

They hired the guy who made the worst play call in Super Bowl history and one of the worst in pro football history. 

 

O.T.L.

That's the narrative based on the results but statistically it just isn't true.  Marshawn Lynch was 1-5 scoring from the 1yd on the season and for the previous 4 years was one of the worst RBs in football scoring about 40%.   Also on the season the Patriots fared very well against the run in such situations.  Also throughtout the season teams scored on a higher % throwing from the 1 than they did running it and that int was the ONLY interception all season on passes thrown from the 1.   Before that play Wilson had a near perfect QB rating throwing inside the 1 and scored on a near 80% clip.     Basically Wilson made a rare bad read and it cost them, nothing more nothing less.  

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6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

From the Seattle Seahawks blog I posted above. . .

A 60-40 run/pass ratio during a two season stretch showcases that this guy runs the ball, A LOT! With that, I don't expect to see the kind of offensive creativity you get from an Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.

Then why pay a QB 27 million a year?  

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6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

From the Seattle Seahawks blog I posted above. . .

A 60-40 run/pass ratio during a two season stretch showcases that this guy runs the ball, A LOT! With that, I don't expect to see the kind of offensive creativity you get from an Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.

That stat was misunderstood by that blog, it was 60% pass.  Seattle ran a lot this year though, over 50%.  If anything Bevell passed too often for Pete Carroll.

 

EDIT: The link in the blog to the 60-40 split was called NFL Team Passing Play Percentage.  Here’s the running play percentage link instead. (it was 40% for Seattle in 2017) https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct?date=2018-02-05

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No, not one of those. One who possess similar traits minus the uncontrollable anger.  

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12 hours ago, Buddha said:

what people do on their own time is their own business and should not preclude them from having meaningful employment.  someone accused of a crime shouldnt lose their job over it.  

those are matters for the criminal courts to decide.  

i would take tyreek hill and kareem hunt in a second.  there is no reason the nfl should have a morals clause.  its not like a financial industry job where you have a fiduciary duty to someone so your past criminal behavior may preclude you from such a position, its a ******* football player.  who gives a **** if he gets into fights on his own time?

But it's an entertainment industry.  If a player generates negative press which hurts the product and reduces sales it's going to be something the business doesn't want around.

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10 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

From the Seattle Seahawks blog I posted above. . .

A 60-40 run/pass ratio during a two season stretch showcases that this guy runs the ball, A LOT! With that, I don't expect to see the kind of offensive creativity you get from an Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.

I think there's a lot more we'd need to know though... I mean 60-40... there's not enough detail there.

For example, how many of those running plays were QB scrambles, either by design or improvised?  When you have a QB like Wilson who is more mobile you'll probably have a bunch in running plays.

How many of the runs were "run out the clock at the end of game when we're ahead" runs?  I'd suspect that better teams have a higher run to pass ratio as they're probably running out the clock more at the end of games.

That's not to say that Bevell won't have more running than we've seen in the past, but I don't know that he was necessarily targeting 60/40.

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3 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

But it's an entertainment industry.  If a player generates negative press which hurts the product and reduces sales it's going to be something the business doesn't want around.

i understand that.  this is just my personal opinion on how we should treat people's private lives.

i also think the backlash from the public will not be that high and will not last that long.

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3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i understand that.  this is just my personal opinion on how we should treat people's private lives.

i also think the backlash from the public will not be that high and will not last that long.

It’s a very difficult issue to deal with, because I agree with your sentiment. 

But it’s also true that these sports teams are often operated as some sort of public office. They have regular press conferences and deal with constant media scrutiny. Everyone has an opinion on how they operate and what they should do. 

There are very few analogous situations. The closest thing to me seems like a political position. You’ve got people out there that get ruined politically due to some personal scandal or malfeasance. Does it mean they can’t still govern or craft policy better than most? Of course not, but they still feel the effect all the same. 

At the risk of getting too political, it ends up depending on the “values” of your constituency when it comes to what behavior becomes disqualifying. 

 

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