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Mr.TaterSalad

2019 Offseason + Free Agency Thread

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Tate has lost more than a step, so I wouldn't have any interest there.

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1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

 

Very good read.

This was a terrific read and further proof that we didn't need to rush and dole that big contract out to Matt Stafford. Like the Lions, I think the Vikings have also handcuffed themselves with their contract to big game bum Kirk Cousins. I don't fully buy into the whole "don't you know how hard it is to find good QB's in the NFL?" argument that so often comes up when you chide Stafford and wish to move in a different direction. I think you've seen teams move on and find success with Goff, Mahomes, Luck, etc.

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 “Teams act out of fear with quarterbacks,” Zack Moore, a salary cap expert and author of Caponomics: Building Super Bowl Champions, told me. “Once you decide a guy can’t win a Super Bowl, you should figure out how to get off that path with him. You cannot pay a middling starter like an elite guy.”

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thesis: if your best paid players dont play well, its bad for your team.

genius insight.

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I'm sure Mahomes will sign a cap friendly deal with KC when the time comes. It would be the right thing for him to do. If not, KC should let him walk.  KC should probably use their top pick now on a QB who they know can throw for 50 TDs and 5K yards, just in case.  

 

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Mahomes won't sign a team friendly deal and he shouldn't. His rookie deal is the efficiency because he gets paid like a 2 string guard while he performs like a $30 million asset. The Lions of course drafted Stafford before the NFLPA sold rookies down the river and limited their initial contracts.

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3 hours ago, JAYB said:

I'm sure Mahomes will sign a cap friendly deal with KC when the time comes. It would be the right thing for him to do. If not, KC should let him walk.  KC should probably use their top pick now on a QB who they know can throw for 50 TDs and 5K yards, just in case.  

 

Nobody is saying that. What some are saying though is if you are in the league for 10 years and have zero division titles, zero playoff wins, an atrocious record and stat sheet against top-tier defenses, have burnt through two head coaches and three offensive coordinators, maybe the franchise you play for should pump the breaks before making you one of the three highest paid QB's in the league.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Nobody is saying that. What some are saying though is if you are in the league for 10 years and have zero division titles, zero playoff wins, an atrocious record and stat sheet against top-tier defenses, have burnt through two head coaches and three offensive coordinators, maybe the franchise you play for should pump the breaks before making you one of the three highest paid QB's in the league.

so nostradamus, other than drafting connor cook in round 1 like you said we should do, what would you have done rather than sign stafford to his extension in 2017, when he was coming off a pro bowl season and a record number of 4th quarter comebacks and led the lions to a 9-4 start before injuring his finger and losing the last three games?

would you have magically traded him to someone?  would you have drafted a qb?  traded up for sam darnold or josh rosen?  waited and taken lamar jackson at 20? 

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

so nostradamus, other than drafting connor cook in round 1 like you said we should do, what would you have done rather than sign stafford to his extension in 2017, when he was coming off a pro bowl season and a record number of 4th quarter comebacks and led the lions to a 9-4 start before injuring his finger and losing the last three games?

would you have magically traded him to someone?  would you have drafted a qb?  traded up for sam darnold or josh rosen?  waited and taken lamar jackson at 20? 

First off, I don't look at 4th quarter comebacks as a persay net positive as it showcases your offensive struggles early on in the game. Second, is the finger the new excuse for why we fell flat at the end of the season? I'll have to write that one down on the Matt Stafford scroll of excuses.

Third, at the time Stafford while still having underachieved, had more trade value than he does now coming off of a disastrous season. At the time I was very clear that if we traded Stafford I wanted multiple 1st round picks or a 1st + 2nd/3rds. The Bills, Browns, Bucs, Cardinals, Jaguars, Jets, Ravens were all looking for QB's. I would have ideally tried to trade Stafford to one of those teams and then flipped picks to move into the Top 10. Josh Rosen would have been the QB I wanted at the time and the Cardinals were able to get him at #10. I would have been happy with any one of Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. I was/am a little more skeptical on Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson given their accuracy issues and tendency to want to take off and run before letting a play fully develop. Teams are winning with QB's on rookie deals because they can go out and be aggressive in free agency and/or the trade market. We could have been one of those teams.

Let me flip the question on you, at what point are you finally willing to say that Stafford may not be the right guy and has to go?

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The fact of the matter is that you can’t get rid of stafford for at least another season due to the cap ramifications. 

The lions will have plenty of cap space this offseason to add players. 

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i wrote this long retort to tater and then my phone ate it.

for brevity's sake, i think that if stafford continues to play poorly next year the lions should think about moving on in 2020 or, most likely, 2021.  it doesnt make sense to do so now for reasons already fully explained.  the extension made total sense at the time considering he was coming off a great season and was in his prime.

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20 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

This was a terrific read and further proof that we didn't need to rush and dole that big contract out to Matt Stafford. Like the Lions, I think the Vikings have also handcuffed themselves with their contract to big game bum Kirk Cousins. I don't fully buy into the whole "don't you know how hard it is to find good QB's in the NFL?" argument that so often comes up when you chide Stafford and wish to move in a different direction. I think you've seen teams move on and find success with Goff, Mahomes, Luck, etc.

Luck was the highest paid QB in the league when he signed his contract. 

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4 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

First off, I don't look at 4th quarter comebacks as a persay net positive as it showcases your offensive struggles early on in the game. Second, is the finger the new excuse for why we fell flat at the end of the season? I'll have to write that one down on the Matt Stafford scroll of excuses.

Third, at the time Stafford while still having underachieved, had more trade value than he does now coming off of a disastrous season. At the time I was very clear that if we traded Stafford I wanted multiple 1st round picks or a 1st + 2nd/3rds. The Bills, Browns, Bucs, Cardinals, Jaguars, Jets, Ravens were all looking for QB's. I would have ideally tried to trade Stafford to one of those teams and then flipped picks to move into the Top 10. Josh Rosen would have been the QB I wanted at the time and the Cardinals were able to get him at #10. I would have been happy with any one of Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. I was/am a little more skeptical on Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson given their accuracy issues and tendency to want to take off and run before letting a play fully develop. Teams are winning with QB's on rookie deals because they can go out and be aggressive in free agency and/or the trade market. We could have been one of those teams.

Let me flip the question on you, at what point are you finally willing to say that Stafford may not be the right guy and has to go?

I remember when you wanted to trade Stafford and draft Connor Cook. 

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Speaking of Goff and Mahomes, they will make more than Stafford when they become free agents. The Rams got Goff because they were terrible after Sam Bradford failed. What do you do when these rookie QB's become free agents? Goff is only under team control for two more years. Then what do you do? He'll be among the highest paid QB's in the NFL. 

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Speaking of Goff and Mahomes, they will make more than Stafford when they become free agents. The Rams got Goff because they were terrible after Sam Bradford failed. What do you do when these rookie QB's become free agents? Goff is only under team control for two more years. Then what do you do? He'll be among the highest paid QB's in the NFL. 

You know what they'll do.  A year after the sign the contract and his team goes 8-8 they'll say "see!  I knew they shouldn't have signed him to that big contract!"  They should draft X in the 4th round to "develop" him (even though that works about 5% of the time).

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Speaking of Goff and Mahomes, they will make more than Stafford when they become free agents. The Rams got Goff because they were terrible after Sam Bradford failed. What do you do when these rookie QB's become free agents? Goff is only under team control for two more years. Then what do you do? He'll be among the highest paid QB's in the NFL. 

 

54 minutes ago, Buddha said:

You know what they'll do.  A year after the sign the contract and his team goes 8-8 they'll say "see!  I knew they shouldn't have signed him to that big contract!"  They should draft X in the 4th round to "develop" him (even though that works about 5% of the time).

What the Rams and Chiefs do should depend on how close they come to winning a Super Bowl in the 5 years they have Goff and Mahomes under rookie contracts.   Time will tell, they both might set the bar for highest paid player in the league.   

Nobody is saying that it’s dumb to sink a huge portion of your salary cap into a Quarterback.   It’s dumb with a QB that has shown over a period of time that hes not good enough to get you to Super Bowl level.    

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4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I remember when you wanted to trade Stafford and draft Connor Cook. 

I remember when you wanted to dole out $29 million for a zero playoff wins dud.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I remember when you wanted to dole out $29 million for a zero playoff wins dud.

if only he were as good as connor cook!

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Connor Cook had first and second round grades by many analysts. His attitude caused him to drop and the guy never really got the chance to showcase anything other than an awful performance in a playoff game with the Raiders. Was I wrong about Cook. Sure! Just like all the prognosticators on here who have been wrong about guys like Pettiwgrew, Ebron, Stafford, etc.

With Matt Stafford and his now $29 million dollar contract eating up 15% of our cap space, the Lions are barely a five to six win football team. I mean, I guess it gets worse, but not much.

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9 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Connor Cook had first and second round grades by many analysts. His attitude caused him to drop 

I don’t know about this one.   I could be the one that’s wrong but this claim seems kind of Trumpy.    

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Cook was projected as a 2nd rnd pick. High as 1st, low as 3rd. Per Draftscout.com. Trumpy indeed. 

 

(site wont allow copy and paste, or I would've  provided the link)

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Since the Lions need multile TE I am assuming they signed a FA and draft one. Toilolo could be re-signed.

 

 

Tyler Eifert TE 28 CIN TBD 4 132 15 179 11.9 1   $5,500,000 UFA -
Jared Cook TE 32 OAK TBD 16 768 68 896 13.2 6   $5,300,000 UFA  
Antonio Gates TE 39 LAC TBD 16 366 28 333 11.9 2 1 $2,500,000 UFA -
Luke Willson TE 29 DET TBD 14 425 13 87 6.7     $2,500,000 UFA -
Marcedes Lewis TE 35 GB TBD 16 191 3 39 13.0     $2,100,000 UFA -
Demetrius Harris TE 28 KC TBD 15 372 12 164 13.7 3   $2,100,000 UFA -
Lance Kendricks TE 31 GB TBD 16 315 19 170 8.9 1   $2,000,000 UFA -
Benjamin Watson TE 38 NO TBD 16 504 35 400 11.4 2   $2,000,000 UFA -
Neal Sterling TE 27 NYJ TBD 5 129 6 47 7.8     $1,907,000 UFA -
Michael Hoomanawanui TE 31 NO TBD               $1,733,333 UFA -
Levine Toilolo TE 28 DET TBD 16 527 21 263 12.5 1   $1,500,000 UFA -
Luke Stocker TE 31 TEN TBD 16 476 15 165 11.0 2   $1,100,000 UFA -
Maxx Williams TE 25 BAL TBD 13 375 16 143 8.9 1   $1,013,185 UFA -
Logan Paulsen TE 32 ATL TBD 15 362 9 91 10.1 1   $1,005,000 UFA -
MarQueis Gray TE 29 MIA TBD               $1,000,000 UFA -
John Phillips TE 32 ARI TBD 8 129 3 38 12.7     $915,000 UFA -
Richard Rodgers TE 27 PHI TBD 6 42 1 7 7.0     $880,000 UFA -
Logan Thomas TE 28 BUF TBD 12 284 12 77 6.4     $790,000 UFA -
Zach Miller TE 34 CHI TBD               $790,000 UFA -
Tyler Kroft TE 26 CIN TBD 5 116 4 36 9.0     $750,319 UFA -
Scott Simonson TE 27 NYG TBD 16 289 9 86 9.6 1   $705,000 UFA -
Blake Bell TE 28 JAC TBD 10 221 8 67 8.4     $705,000 UFA -
Clive Walford TE 27 NYJ TBD 1 2           $705,000 UFA -
Jeff Heuerman TE 26 DEN TBD 11 555 31 281 9.1 2   $703,452 UFA -
Jerome Cunningham TE 28 DET TBD 1 20           $675,000 RFA -
Xavier Grimble TE 26 PIT TBD 16 175 6 86 14.3   1 $630,000 RFA -
Chris Manhertz TE 27 CAR TBD 16 343 2 52 26.0 1   $630,000 RFA -
Matt Lengel TE 28 CIN TBD 6 87 3 17 5.7 1   $630,000 RFA -
C.J. Uzomah TE 26 CIN TBD 16 841 43 439 10.2 3   $623,191 UFA -
Jesse James TE 25 PIT TBD 16 563 30 423 14.1 2   $622,228 UFA -
James O'Shaughnessy TE 27 JAC TBD 14 531 24 214 8.9     $618,314 UFA -
Nick Boyle TE 26 BAL TBD 16 652 23 213 9.3     $611,564 UFA -
A.J. Derby TE 27 MIA TBD 4 124 3 48 16.0 1   $598,013 UFA -
Geoff Swaim TE 25 DAL TBD 9 514 26 242 9.3 1   $583,684 UFA -
Brian Parker TE 27 DEN TBD 12 146 5 33 6.6     $555,000 ERFA -
Alex Ellis TE 26 KC TBD 2 11           $555,000 ERFA -
Darrell Daniels TE 24 ARI TBD 11 88           $555,000 ERFA -
Mitchell Loewen TE 26 DET TBD 1             $541,667 ERFA -
Ben Braunecker TE 25 CHI TBD 15 119 3 42 14.0     $540,000 RFA -
Ross Travis TE 26 IND TBD               $540,000 RFA -
Matt LaCosse TE 26 DEN TBD               $510,000 ERFA -
Ricky Seals-Jones TE 24 ARI TBD 15 538 34 343 10.1 1   $510,000 ERFA -
Alan Cross TE 26 TB TBD 14 102 2 9 4.5     $495,000 RFA -
Cedrick Lang TE 27 MIN TBD               $490,000 ERFA -
Jake McGee TE 27 PIT TBD               $480,000 ERFA -
Josiah Price TE 27 MIN TBD               $480,000 ERFA -

 

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The draft has a much better class of TE's than free agency.  I really like Zach Gentry.

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