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What exactly does this team need?

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On Tuesday, February 05, 2019 at 7:55 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

On the topic of formations, Romo was talking about the Patriots running pretty much not only the same formation but the same play on most of the TD drive. Would have made Bo proud, who used to say that if you execute well enough it doesn't matter if the defense knows what you are going to run.

Romo, BTW, knows enough football, but is a horrible broadcaster. They really should have checked to see that he could complete a sentence before they gave him the analyst gig.

Forget about the impossible dream of complete sentences and just get him to use words, instead of the assortment of cries, barks, grunts, screams, squeals, and other wordless noises and exclamations that make up so much of his repertoire.

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Kareem Hunt to the Browns for 1 year @ $1mil. That's insane!!! I know that Hunt is a personal dirtbag for laying his hands on a women. But wow, for the Browns to land him, at that price no less, is incredible. Now the Browns will have both Chubb and Hunt in the backfield and Mayfield will have a serious weapon to go to next year.

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On 2/11/2019 at 2:12 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Kareem Hunt to the Browns for 1 year @ $1mil. That's insane!!! I know that Hunt is a personal dirtbag for laying his hands on a women. But wow, for the Browns to land him, at that price no less, is incredible. Now the Browns will have both Chubb and Hunt in the backfield and Mayfield will have a serious weapon to go to next year.

The Browns were already better than the Lions.  Now they're better still.  Maybe not nicer, but better.

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21 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

The Browns were already better than the Lions.  Now they're better still.  Maybe not nicer, but better.

They went 0-16 and if not for kicking woes, could very well have made the playoffs the next season. The Lions went 2-14 after their 0-16 season. People around Detroit gave Mayhew, Schwartz and Stafford 4 years worth of "well, you know how hard it is to rebuild from an 0-16 season. It takes time." The Browns have a real shot to make some noise next season if they stay healthy and have at least a decent off-season. We'll be floundering at 6-10/7-9 again I fear. Hopefully my fears are wrong.

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Stafford was also injured the first two seasons. The Lions won 10 games and made the playoffs the first year he was healthy for a full 16 games. Stafford played in 13 games combined the first two years. FWIW, the 0-16 Browns were better than the 0-16 Lions. Cleveland's defense wasn't even last in the NFL. Cleveland also had stockpiled a lot of top draft picks. You also forgot to mention that Cleveland was 1-15 the prior year and damn near had two back to back 0-16 seasons and two number 1 picks in a row. Their two year stretch was worse than the Lions two year stretch. The Browns timeline is on the same path as the Lions. If Stafford plays more than 3 games his second year in the league, the Lions may compete for a playoff spot a year earlier. 

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BTW Cleveland has had 9 first round picks the past 5 years and 3 top 4 picks the past two years. They damn well better have some talent. How is that Johnny Manziel working out for them?

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12 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

BTW Cleveland has had 9 first round picks the past 5 years and 3 top 4 picks the past two years. They damn well better have some talent. How is that Johnny Manziel working out for them?

At least they got rid of him.  The Lions still have Teez Tabor.  I guess he's"good people," because according to Bob Quinn that's what he wants.  Maybe he can snag Mister Rogers (not Charles), Stuart Smalley, Albert Schweitzer, and Mother Teresa in this year's draft.

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Cleveland literally traded away Carson Wentz and DeShaun Watson. They ended up taking Cody Kessler and Deshone Kizer in those respective drafts. They passed on drafting Mahomes and Trubisky. This is only two years after drafting Johnny Manziel with a first round pick who was drafted only two years after drafting a 28 year old Brandon Weeden. Lest we not forget trading a 3rd round pick for Tyrod Taylor. Now with Baker Mayfield, the Browns have invested 6 picks in the top 3 rounds on a QB and may finally have found their guy after 6 shots at it. It's as if finding a good QB is hard. 

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Comparing the Browns and Lions is kind of like debating dog**** vs. horse****

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18 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

They went 0-16 and if not for kicking woes, could very well have made the playoffs the next season. The Lions went 2-14 after their 0-16 season. People around Detroit gave Mayhew, Schwartz and Stafford 4 years worth of "well, you know how hard it is to rebuild from an 0-16 season. It takes time." The Browns have a real shot to make some noise next season if they stay healthy and have at least a decent off-season. We'll be floundering at 6-10/7-9 again I fear. Hopefully my fears are wrong.

In defense of the "It takes time" comment, when this was happening there was an important aspect that isn't in play now: Huge rookie wages.  That is a very big difference now vs. when the Lions were picking right at the top.  I'd say it's easier now to rebuild faster.

Now, that's only PART of the conversation of course and doesn't fully explain things.  Assuming the Browns really have turned it around and this isn't just a flash in the pan, they probably would still have been more successful than the Lions after their 0-16 season.  Likewise, put Mayhew/Schwartz in a situation without huge rookie wages and they probably aren't as successful as the Brown appear to be right now.  But, I do believe it's worth pointing out there is at least one big mitigating factor.

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13 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Comparing the Browns and Lions is kind of like debating dog**** vs. horse****

I think you meant dog**** and cat****

 

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Denver just traded a mid round pick for Joe Flacco. They now have 28.5 million tied to Flacco and Keenum. Weren't they aware they can just go out and draft Mahomes or Connor Cook? 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Denver just traded a mid round pick for Joe Flacco. They now have 28.5 million tied to Flacco and Keenum. Weren't they aware they can just go out and draft Mahomes or Connor Cook? 

I’m sure they will go out and try to draft a QB again either this year or next.  I also doubt they will be keeping Keenum.  That failed miserably.

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11 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I’m sure they will go out and try to draft a QB again either this year or next.  I also doubt they will be keeping Keenum.  That failed miserably.

They can cut Keenum and save 8 million, will still have a 10 million dead money hit though. Or keep him and pay 21 million. YIKES!

Broncos are better than the Ravens, I think Flaco might actually be OK for them in the short term. Talking heads on ESPN hate the move, and I get that from a cap prospective. But I believe Flaco is an upgrade over Keenum, even though they had similar numbers in recent years.

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22 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I’m sure they will go out and try to draft a QB again either this year or next.  I also doubt they will be keeping Keenum.  That failed miserably.

The 28.5 million number is assuming they cut Keenum. They can't pay over $40 million for two QBs. I don't know if Flacco is much of an upgrade over Keenum and if Flacco puts them over the top.

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15 minutes ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

They can cut Keenum and save 8 million, will still have a 10 million dead money hit though. Or keep him and pay 21 million. YIKES!

Broncos are better than the Ravens, I think Flaco might actually be OK for them in the short term. Talking heads on ESPN hate the move, and I get that from a cap prospective. But I believe Flaco is an upgrade over Keenum, even though they had similar numbers in recent years.

I'm not sure the Broncos are better. They traded away Thomas and Sanders may not being coming back. 

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Getting back to topic.

It would be an amazing offseason If they could somehow sign Flowers and use pick 8 for a stud defensive prospect. That would be huge and everything else would just be a bonus.  

Since i’m a Lions fan, I am preparing for them to miss out on Flowers and use pick 8 on a an Iowa TE.  

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3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Getting back to topic.

It would be an amazing offseason If they could somehow sign Flowers and use pick 8 for a stud defensive prospect. That would be huge and everything else would just be a bonus.  

Since i’m a Lions fan, I am preparing for them to miss out on Flowers and use pick 8 on a an Iowa TE.  

If they draft TJ Hockenson with all tut glaring needs they have on defense then call Luke and let the rebellion begin against this front office. Good franchises don't draft the Tight End position in the first. Add onto that, the majority of dominate NFL Tight Ends aren't picked in the first.

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7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If they draft TJ Hockenson with all tut glaring needs they have on defense then call Luke and let the rebellion begin against this front office. Good franchises don't draft the Tight End position in the first. Add onto that, the majority of dominate NFL Tight Ends aren't picked in the first.

It’s probably hyperbolic of me to suggest they would take TE at 8.  More likely is they trade down and take one later in the 1st.   That I could clearly see happening. 

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20 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If they draft TJ Hockenson with all tut glaring needs they have on defense then call Luke and let the rebellion begin against this front office. Good franchises don't draft the Tight End position in the first. Add onto that, the majority of dominate NFL Tight Ends aren't picked in the first.

Yep.  Unless a guy projects as an all-time great or at least a once- or twice-in-a-generation talent at tight end -- a Tony Gonzalez or Kellen Winslow or maybe Jason Whiten -- he isn't likely to be worth a first-round pick, or at least not a high first-rounder.  Rob Gronkowski was a mid-second-round selection, and Travis Kelce went in the third round.  And Antonio Gates wasn't even drafted.

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6 hours ago, Hongbit said:

It’s probably hyperbolic of me to suggest they would take TE at 8.  More likely is they trade down and take one later in the 1st.   That I could clearly see happening. 

Mayhew took a Tight End at both #10 and #20. I would hope Quinn looks at that and seeks caution. If they do stand pat and take Hockenson this fan base should be outraged, before the guy even takes a snap. I'm sure there will be homers who will scoff and defend the pick on the basis of "just because the last two high round TE's picked here failed doesn't mean he will" and others will hype up his great talents on the field. Don't buy any of it. We have greater needs than a TE in the 1st and you can seemingly find solid starters in later rounds. TJ Hockenson, chosen at #8 overall, would be a big mistake (in my uneducated opinion).

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6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If they draft TJ Hockenson with all tut glaring needs they have on defense then call Luke and let the rebellion begin against this front office. Good franchises don't draft the Tight End position in the first. Add onto that, the majority of dominate NFL Tight Ends aren't picked in the first.

Steelers and Colts took a TE in the 1st. Patriots have taken two TEs in the 1st. Giants and 49ers each took a TE in the 1st who ended up playing in a Super Bowl. 

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19 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Steelers and Colts took a TE in the 1st. Patriots have taken two TEs in the 1st. Giants and 49ers each took a TE in the 1st who ended up playing in a Super Bowl. 

When did the Colts take a first round TE? Coby Fleener was a 2nd round pick. Yes, the Steelers took Heath Miller in the first but they did so at the very end of the first, not at #8. 

Also, Vernon Davis was a great talent for SanFran, but the positional value this year compared to what the Lions need does not add up. Are you comfortable going with TE over Edge or LB or CB? If not, you should be on the anti-Hockenson Express.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

When did the Colts take a first round TE? Coby Fleener was a 2nd round pick. Yes, the Steelers took Heath Miller in the first but they did so at the very end of the first, not at #8. 

Also, Vernon Davis was a great talent for SanFran, but the positional value this year compared to what the Lions need does not add up. Are you comfortable going with TE over Edge or LB or CB? If not, you should be on the anti-Hockenson Express.

Dallas Clark. If Hockenson is the next Gronkowski, sure I would take him 8th. The Lions don't have much talent in their receiving core. 

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Dallas Clark. If Hockenson is the next Gronkowski, sure I would take him 8th. The Lions don't have much talent in their receiving core. 

Quote

Hockenson is a throwback player with the size, strength and power to overwhelm defenders in the running game while also dazzling as a pass catcher down the seams. He's a traditional tight end prospect who evokes images of former Giant Mark Bavaro in his prime.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001017849/article/bucky-brooks-top-5-2019-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position-10

Correct answer: If Hockenson is (or might be) the next Gronkowski, take him 8th.

 

I'm not sure fans understand that not every draft is 1983. I'm also not sure they understand that you can only draft the players that are actually in the draft. Saying "He's not a first round talent" is meaningless if there are only six "first round talents" in the draft. 

By all accounts, this draft has three or four standout DL prospects in Bosa, Williams, Allen, and Gary. They are pretty likely to be gone by pick 8.

Opinions vary widely on Ferrell, Sweat, Ferguson, and Simmons, and you're starting to get into some red flags on some of them. (Plus, how do they compare to Harold Landry? Every year there are pass rushers that people want to project as top talents, but who turn out to be average.)

The consensus top CB is Greedy Williams - though people say he doesn't like to tackle, gets beat too often in press coverage, and may have an attitude. 

The best chance the Lions have is if there is a run on QBs and one of the blue chip pass rushers falls to them, or if Miami or Washington gets antsy and wants to trade up to #8 for a QB.

If not, you have to seriously consider Hockenson at #8 (or, hopefully, at #13 or #15). Saying Mayhew picked a TE at #10 or #20 therefore we need to sharpen our pitchforks in case Quinn does the same makes no sense. By all accounts, Hockenson is a complete TE and highly polished in all parts of his game; Ebron was never thought to be a blocker, and was always known to struggle with drops, and Pettigrew was merely competent in both phases. Reports on Hockenson are that he is a three-down player who excels both as a receiver and as a blocker, and who is likely to take on a complete role very early in his career. 

"Well Gronk didn't get picked until the second round, so blah blah blah." How many teams regret not having used a higher pick to get Gronk? And don't you think the Lions regret not having used the #5 pick in 1997 on Tony Gonzalez? He went #13, but the Lions refused to waste a top 5 pick on a TE and picked a CB, Bryant Westbrook. 

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