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What exactly does this team need?

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26 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Super Bowl champion coach Belichick on how he game planned for the Rams: “What we did was similar to what the Lions did to them...”

lose?

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So now that the fake Super Bowl is over we can finally concentrate on the real Super Bowl for Lions fans, the off-season and draft. If the Pats released the broken down Gronk and he doesn't retire, do you take a chance on the guy?

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5 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

So now that the fake Super Bowl is over we can finally concentrate on the real Super Bowl for Lions fans, the off-season and draft. If the Pats released the broken down Gronk and he doesn't retire, do you take a chance on the guy?

nope.  he didnt want to play here last year and he definitely wont next year.  and he's never healthy anyway.

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On 2/3/2019 at 8:08 PM, Buddha said:

lose?

Quote

“Playing Cover-4 was unscouted. Or it was different from them, let’s put it that way.” The Rams had struggled against Quarters earlier in the season, most notably in Week 13 at the Lions, who deployed it for the first time under head coach Matt Patricia, the recent Patriots defensive coordinator who runs a Belichick-style man-to-man scheme.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/04/bill-belichick-sean-mcvay-super-bowl-liii

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After three quarters, the Rams were up 16-13. Then Stafford lost a fumble, the Rams got possession just out of the red zone, scored a TD, and the rout was on. 

Anyway, I’m not used to people copying the Lions, let alone copying them and having success. 

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I must say, I was impressed with the Rams offense. I wish we would have hired one of their innovative offensive people. 

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29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I must say, I was impressed with the Rams offense. I wish we would have hired one of their innovative offensive people. 

I assume, after their anemic showing at the SB, you are being sarcastic, but I’ll play along. 

One thing about the Rams so-called innovative offense is that they run the same formation something like 70% of the time. McVay stands behind the defense and radios the play - and info about the defensive coverage - to Goff. Their big plays come off of play action passes, where Goff doesn’t have to make complicated reads. What’s their competitive advantage? Play action based on a fearsome rushing attack, and the fact that McVay is like a second QB. But Belichick (and, for three quarters, the Lions) took away their run game. And Belichick took away McVay, so Goff was alone out there. 

There is a book on the Rams now. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them take a step back next season. 

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42 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I assume, after their anemic showing at the SB, you are being sarcastic, but I’ll play along. 

One thing about the Rams so-called innovative offense is that they run the same formation something like 70% of the time. McVay stands behind the defense and radios the play - and info about the defensive coverage - to Goff. Their big plays come off of play action passes, where Goff doesn’t have to make complicated reads. What’s their competitive advantage? Play action based on a fearsome rushing attack, and the fact that McVay is like a second QB. But Belichick (and, for three quarters, the Lions) took away their run game. And Belichick took away McVay, so Goff was alone out there. 

There is a book on the Rams now. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them take a step back next season. 

On the topic of formations, Romo was talking about the Patriots running pretty much not only the same formation but the same play on most of the TD drive. Would have made Bo proud, who used to say that if you execute well enough it doesn't matter if the defense knows what you are going to run.

Romo, BTW, knows enough football, but is a horrible broadcaster. They really should have checked to see that he could complete a sentence before they gave him the analyst gig.

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:55 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

On the topic of formations, Romo was talking about the Patriots running pretty much not only the same formation but the same play on most of the TD drive. Would have made Bo proud, who used to say that if you execute well enough it doesn't matter if the defense knows what you are going to run.

Romo, BTW, knows enough football, but is a horrible broadcaster. They really should have checked to see that he could complete a sentence before they gave him the analyst gig.

If you have the offensive line it almost doesn't matter if the defense knows where you are running...see above.

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On 1/30/2019 at 10:54 AM, Gehringer_2 said:

I was looking for the stat on Stafford for how many yards per attempt his throws are (not the yardage the play goes for including YAC) but haven't found it. Just as a now *very* casual observer of the Lions, that number has seemed to me to be dropping. Like Tate's YAC was the main thing propping up the passing game results since Johnson hung them up.

The problem is that CJ was HIGHLY overrated.  The guy never won a playoff game, never won a division, was never in a championship game, and had a pretty bad record against good (ie, .500 or better) teams.

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12 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

The problem is that CJ was HIGHLY overrated.  The guy never won a playoff game, never won a division, was never in a championship game, and had a pretty bad record against good (ie, .500 or better) teams.

I know why you're saying this but you cannot compare the QB's responsibility to that of his top or any WR. 

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Mcshay has us taking Greedy Williams in his latest mock. Id still prefer a pass rusher or offensive playmaker but a Greedy and Slay DB combo does sound nice. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I know why you're saying this but you cannot compare the QB's responsibility to that of his top or any WR. 

Well, lemme open my list if CJ excuses and add that to it...

In all seriousness, you are correct in that a QB has more responsibility and therefore more blame for a loss and more credit for a win.  BUT... more =/= all... or even most of the responsibility.  I dunno if I could even make the claim that the QB is 50+% responsible for the offense's performance, let alone the whole team.

There isn't a player on the team who is individually more important to the over all success of a team than the QB, but just like a pitcher on a baseball team, that doesn't mean they are the end all be all.

If the OL doesn't block well, the QB won't have time for plays to develop.  If the running game stinks, the opposing defense will focus on the QB much more heavily.  If the receivers can't hold onto the ball it doesn't matter what the QB does.  If the OC is stupid, it makes the QB that much less effective.

Is the QB more important?  **** yes!  But even if he's 15 times more important than every other starter on the field (and discounting coaching) that still means Stafford is about 41% responsible for a win or a loss.  That's what we're all trying to say when we say football is a TEAM game.

10 Starters on offense outside of the QB
11 Starters on defense
2 kickers
15 points for the QB
100 / 37 = 2.7% responsibility per unit x 15 units for the QB = 40.54%

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17 hours ago, RedRamage said:

Well, lemme open my list if CJ excuses and add that to it...

In all seriousness, you are correct in that a QB has more responsibility and therefore more blame for a loss and more credit for a win.  BUT... more =/= all... or even most of the responsibility.  I dunno if I could even make the claim that the QB is 50+% responsible for the offense's performance, let alone the whole team.

There isn't a player on the team who is individually more important to the over all success of a team than the QB, but just like a pitcher on a baseball team, that doesn't mean they are the end all be all.

If the OL doesn't block well, the QB won't have time for plays to develop.  If the running game stinks, the opposing defense will focus on the QB much more heavily.  If the receivers can't hold onto the ball it doesn't matter what the QB does.  If the OC is stupid, it makes the QB that much less effective.

Is the QB more important?  **** yes!  But even if he's 15 times more important than every other starter on the field (and discounting coaching) that still means Stafford is about 41% responsible for a win or a loss.  That's what we're all trying to say when we say football is a TEAM game.

10 Starters on offense outside of the QB
11 Starters on defense
2 kickers
15 points for the QB
100 / 37 = 2.7% responsibility per unit x 15 units for the QB = 40.54%

It is a team game, which is why I was never comfortable sinking $29 million a season and 15-16-17% of the cap into just one position, especially with the results we've been getting out of our overpriced commodity. If Matt Stafford were giving us all pro results then that is a different story, but essentially we're getting what we could have gotten out of signing Kirk Cousins (and Minnesota by overpaying Cousins is getting Matt Stafford). You can't invest in other positions of need if you sink that kind of cap space into a QB, Stafford or Cousins. Minnesota is lucky to have a few players on rookie deals (Alexander and Cook) but they are going to pay the price for signing Cousins if he doesn't elevate his play.

If that QB is capable of elevating the team around him and taking over and winning a game (Mahomes, Luck, Brees, Brady, etc.) then you can justify the contract. In Stafford's case, outside of a handful of slow starts that necessitated a 4th quarter comeback, we cannot say he's done those things that the top-tier QB's have.

Is it too much to ask if you're going to get paid like a top-tier QB to play like one? Also, if you're going to make the argument about a team game, then why are you comfortable and willing to sink that level of cap space into this one guy? Is it all in the name of "It's hard to find quality starting QB's in the NFL, so we should hold onto what we have because the alternative might be far worse?"

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On 2/7/2019 at 12:16 PM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

That is another way of saying execution trumps the element of surprise.

years of watching lloydball tells me that you can execute all you want, but if the other team has more talent and knows what play youre running, the other team will stop you.

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4 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Is it too much to ask if you're going to get paid like a top-tier QB to play like one? Also, if you're going to make the argument about a team game, then why are you comfortable and willing to sink that level of cap space into this one guy? Is it all in the name of "It's hard to find quality starting QB's in the NFL, so we should hold onto what we have because the alternative might be far worse?"

I'm not sure that anyone will defend Stafford's 2018 year... he definitely didn't have a great year.  I don't think he's significantly over paid right now... but another year or two like last, and I'll very much agree.

But the argument is morphing if we're starting to talk about pay in relation to performance on the field.  Is 20% of the cap too much for a QB?  I'd say it's definitely on the edge if not past it.  But I find it odd that you seem to argue this is too much give a QB yet argue that the QB is most important and a significant reason of why a team wins or loses.  

For the record, I think that...

  • Is Stafford an All-Pro QB? No, but he's better than many other starting QBs right now.
  • Is Stafford the reason the Lions are losing? The easy answer: Because this is a team game, yes, he is part of the reason.  But a more nuanced answer: Before 2018 - mostly no. Last year, yes he didn't play as well as he should.
  • Is Stafford overpaid? Right now, I'd say no given that he's only had one bad year.  What he's getting is the going rate for 'good' QBs.  This will of course change is he has more bad years.

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12 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Talent > Execution > Surprise

Except, as many have pointed out, in the Patriot world with former Belichick assistants like Patrica it goes . . .

Coach and/or GM > "Genius" Scheme > Execution > Talent > Surprise

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Guess the Rams will be trading Goff. After this season, they will need to lock him into a contract that will pay him more than Stafford. Might as well get those draft picks now. The Rams also have a ton of money locked into a RB they don't even play in the Super Bowl. 

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I'm curious what free agents the Lions couldn't sign because they have Stafford signed? From what I gather, the Lions still have cap space to go out and sign free agents this offseason. 

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5 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm curious what free agents the Lions couldn't sign because they have Stafford signed? From what I gather, the Lions still have cap space to go out and sign free agents this offseason. 

Just to stir the pot, I’ll say Nick Foles. 😉

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 8:41 AM, Motown Bombers said:

Guess the Rams will be trading Goff. After this season, they will need to lock him into a contract that will pay him more than Stafford. Might as well get those draft picks now. The Rams also have a ton of money locked into a RB they don't even play in the Super Bowl. 

I didn't realize that Stafford won playoff games and went to a Super Bowl. Which playoff games did those wins occur in? Also, which Super Bowl did he appear in?

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I didn't realize that Stafford won playoff games and went to a Super Bowl. Which playoff games did those wins occur in? Also, which Super Bowl did he appear in?

According to you, the Rams made the Super Bowl because they have a QB on a rookie contract. They will only have that for one more season before they will need to sign him long term. Once the Rams sign Goff, they won't be able to pay Gurley top dollar to sit on the bench.  Funny thing is Matthew Stafford has much better passing numbers in the playoffs than Goff but Goff got bailed out by one of the worst calls ever. His defense didn't allow 45 points, 626 yards, and 0 punts to the Saints. 

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