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What exactly does this team need?

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

mccarthy held the packers back, especially with play calling.  its a lot easier to win when you have one of the top 5 qbs of all time in his prime.

i wouldnt want mike mccarthy as oc and i definitely wouldnt want him as head coach.  there are plenty of other more interesting candidates out there.

From what I am believing now - I doubt Stafford could even grasp McCarthy's playbook..........even after an offseason.   

The reason the Lions playbook is so stale, basic and predictable is Matthew Stafford and every other team knows it and knows what's coming and it shows.   JBC could actually be a great OC - being held back by Stafford.     I think of it this way........Scott Linehan has done more everywhere else.  Joe Lombardi seems to be very highly thought of.   It's Stafford - he's the constant.  

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As to Jim Caldwell, I will stand by the notion that he was a solid professional, eliminated drama and overall players wanted to play for him.

That is 80%+ of the job at that level.  Professionals know what they need to do.

On gameday, the coaches should try to place their players in positions where they can leverage their strength(s), ideally against the opposition's weakness(es).  This is important part of coaching, but not as important as the day to day team building / practice end of it. 

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1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

From what I am believing now - I doubt Stafford could even grasp McCarthy's playbook..........even after an offseason.   

The reason the Lions playbook is so stale, basic and predictable is Matthew Stafford and every other team knows it and knows what's coming and it shows.   JBC could actually be a great OC - being held back by Stafford.     I think of it this way........Scott Linehan has done more everywhere else.  Joe Lombardi seems to be very highly thought of.   It's Stafford - he's the constant.  

joe lombardi is so highly thought of that he's back to being qb coach for the saints and hasnt been hired anywhere else as an oc in the 4 years since his lion stint ended.

linehan is the same guy he's been everywhere.  you should go to dallas and witness that amazingly innovative offense that has turned dak prescott into tim tebow even with one of the best running backs in football.

stafford played like a top 6 or 7 qb for the last two seasons under jbc.  this year hasnt been like that at all.  so even with a stale and predictable playbook they had a top 10 qb.  hmmm...

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and back to lombardi, i bet being drew brees' "qb coach" is really really hard.  that guy has so much to learn.

kind if like being bill belichek's defensive coordinator...

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

mcs hot take.

patricia didnt hire people because they were no threat to him.  he was just hired as head coach and there is no way in heck he was going to be fired after this year unless he did something stupid off the field like rape someone or make fun of trans people.

patricia hired his friends and people he's comfortable with as coordinators.  that sounds troubling but is likely the norm for 90% of the nfl (and every other profession).

At least Caldwell had his teams prepared.    

Doesn't matter, this team is hamstrung by a QB, for some reason, who ain't into it anymore.   Don't know if it's the coaches.  Don't know if it's the money, Don't know if it's the culture or the inability to really manage a game - but it's probably all of those things.   He's not going anywhere,  not with the cap hit,  and not for the life of this contract.  

This idea that after next year some team like Jacksonville or another team with QB issues will swoop in and drop 1st and 2nd round picks into the Lions lap for a 32 year old QB who has never won a playoff game is silly.   The way Stafford is playing this year his value drops and drops and drops.   

And I am getting a little sick of the string of cliches coming out of his mouth after another brutal performance.   Show some fire, just once.    "Um (Cliche with shoulder shrug).......Um (Cliche with head nod)........Um (Just plain cliche)...........all monotone.     He's been given good pieces over and over and over and really - look at the numbers - a lot of stats built up in garbage time.  

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8 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I wish Stafford got angry.  That would make it ok.

if stafford got angry, mcs would pine away for a more professional qb.  you never saw joe montana get angry! you cant win with an over-emotional qb that the team will not rally around!

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On 12/1/2018 at 10:22 PM, cruzer1 said:

I completely disagree. It's more safe than ever. Australian rules sucks.

I have to disagree. Aussie Rules Football is pretty awesome.

And football is massively dangerous. There's no getting around that. It's way more dangerous at the HS level than it ever has been. The training is smarter. There's no doubt about that. They won't throw people out there with concussions any more. At least not as they used to. I still see times people end up on the field and I can't believe they are back out there. But hits are way more in the wide open than ever before. Thirty years ago, most hits in a prep game happened among people within five yards of the line of scrimmage in a pile of people. Today, you have hits in the open field at probably three to four times more than you did 30 years ago because the offenses open up the field way more today. Plus, the kids are way stronger, much better conditioned and just better athletes because they train year round. If anything training like that has made football way more dangerous - kids can play a more open game and hit harder than ever before making it a completely different game from 30 years ago.

The education is clearly better. There is more emphasis on safety, that's for certain. But the actual play with the kids on the field - it's way more dangerous today. Every open field his is jarring your head regardless if you are hitting your head on the ground or not. The hits are just way more potent than ever before.  If I had a kid, I wouldn't encourage them to play football. If they wanted to, I'd probably not stop him/her, but I certainly would hope my son/daughter would want to go in a different direction athletically. I see about 15 games a year and have for almost 30 years now at the prep level from the field perspective. No way is it safer today.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

As to Jim Caldwell, I will stand by the notion that he was a solid professional, eliminated drama and overall players wanted to play for him.

That is 80%+ of the job at that level.  Professionals know what they need to do.

On gameday, the coaches should try to place their players in positions where they can leverage their strength(s), ideally against the opposition's weakness(es).  This is important part of coaching, but not as important as the day to day team building / practice end of it. 

I never was upset with Caldwell. That said, it was time to let him go when they finally did. I wasn't mad at him and I didn't think he did a lousy job or was a mastermind. But, for the most part, he did a fine job, but it was time for a change.

How about Patricia - I wouldn't cry if Patricia was fired tomorrow. He won't. That would look mighty bad on our mighty New England front office guru, but I haven't seen anything from Patricia that makes me feel like he knows what he's doing or that his players will play for him. I don't know if I believed them when it was said, but this was supposed to be a 9-7 squad that was going to make a leap into the playoffs this year. That was the bag of goods we were sold, and there's no doubt that this organization took a huge step backwards in just about any area you may want to analyze. This organization hasn't gotten better since the GM change. It's clearly worse off.

 

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48 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Stafford is easily the best QB the Lions have had since Layne.

That's not saying much when you look at his competition. Yes, he's got talent. I would never question that.

I do think it's at a time where Stafford probably will never blossom into the player a lot of people think he could in Detroit. I think a change of scenery in another organization would probably do him well and he'd probably take off and tick every single one of us off. But that's not going to happen with that contract anytime soon.  And Stafford, well, we'll be having the same discussions people have had about him for six years now while the Lions stride for mediocrity, doing nothing more than making the playoffs and losing when they get into the playoffs. I think a change would do the guy a ton of good and probably is what is needed for him to elevate his game.

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2 hours ago, DTroppens said:

That's not saying much when you look at his competition. Yes, he's got talent. I would never question that.

I do think it's at a time where Stafford probably will never blossom into the player a lot of people think he could in Detroit. I think a change of scenery in another organization would probably do him well and he'd probably take off and tick every single one of us off. But that's not going to happen with that contract anytime soon.  And Stafford, well, we'll be having the same discussions people have had about him for six years now while the Lions stride for mediocrity, doing nothing more than making the playoffs and losing when they get into the playoffs. I think a change would do the guy a ton of good and probably is what is needed for him to elevate his game.

I don't think a change right now would necessarily do him much good because he'll likely get traded to a situation worse than here, a bad team that needs a QB.  Think about it, this is probably the best offensive line he's had since he's been here, definitely the best stable of running backs and if they add a solid slot receiver in the offseason, that's a pretty good group of receivers as well. 

I don't know if it's coaching or whatnot, but there's no reason for this to not be a top 10 offense on paper next season with a healthy roster and a few upgrades at receiver so his surrounding cast should benefit him.

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23 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I don't think a change right now would necessarily do him much good because he'll likely get traded to a situation worse than here, a bad team that needs a QB.  Think about it, this is probably the best offensive line he's had since he's been here, definitely the best stable of running backs and if they add a solid slot receiver in the offseason, that's a pretty good group of receivers as well. 

I don't know if it's coaching or whatnot, but there's no reason for this to not be a top 10 offense on paper next season with a healthy roster and a few upgrades at receiver so his surrounding cast should benefit him.

It happens all the time. People leave, it just changes their life perspective and they flourish. It's not even just a Lions thing. People do get to a point of just being comfortable in what "they've learned" in a setting and without realizing it live within the mentality they've learned in that setting - or maybe they are just too comfortable.

Eric Ebron is a decent example. Yes, the Lions released him but his career wasn't in danger. Someone was going to pick him up and he got picked up. I'm sure they've done some stuff at Indy to feature him or help his game (just a guess I don't watch Indy game), but it was probably a change of residency and employment that made the biggest difference. I remember  thinking the change would do him well, and it has.

The offense next year being top 10 - well, they have to make the right decisions for that to happen. I certainly don't think it's automatic.

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48 minutes ago, DTroppens said:

Eric Ebron is a decent example. Yes, the Lions released him but his career wasn't in danger. Someone was going to pick him up and he got picked up. I'm sure they've done some stuff at Indy to feature him or help his game (just a guess I don't watch Indy game), but it was probably a change of residency and employment that made the biggest difference. I remember  thinking the change would do him well, and it has.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/11/12/18085204/eric-ebron-nfl-indianapolis-colts-leagues-best-tight-ends

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15 hours ago, DTroppens said:

It happens all the time. People leave, it just changes their life perspective and they flourish. It's not even just a Lions thing. People do get to a point of just being comfortable in what "they've learned" in a setting and without realizing it live within the mentality they've learned in that setting - or maybe they are just too comfortable.

Eric Ebron is a decent example. Yes, the Lions released him but his career wasn't in danger. Someone was going to pick him up and he got picked up. I'm sure they've done some stuff at Indy to feature him or help his game (just a guess I don't watch Indy game), but it was probably a change of residency and employment that made the biggest difference. I remember  thinking the change would do him well, and it has.

The offense next year being top 10 - well, they have to make the right decisions for that to happen. I certainly don't think it's automatic.

Ebron was thriving late last season and the Lions foolishly let him go because of his cap hit.  I said it at the time (you can check my posts at the time) that it was a mistake and it looks even worse now.  I don't think it was the change of scenery that helped him, it was the natural progression of a young player figuring it out.

I don't think the offense will automatically be top 10, that would be a foolish assumption. I'm saying that, on paper, it should be top 10. Whether or not that comes to fruition is another story.

As far as Stafford is concerned, I too have said that a change of scenery would benefit him because the Lions seem to screw up all their good players but this was before the emergence of Golladay and Johnson.  This is the first time that the Lions have had a potential star receiver and running back combo since Sanders and Moore? These two will be featured more prominently next season and with the right play caller playing to their strengths, this could very well be the best supporting cast Stafford has ever had. I'd like to see them try Riddick at slot receiver too. He's probably the best route runner on the team and is severely underutilized because he's the 3rd running back. Get him out of the backfield and into a more prominent receiver role and his numbers will spike up and give Stafford a much needed outlet.

 

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4 hours ago, NYLion said:

Ebron was thriving late last season and the Lions foolishly let him go because of his cap hit.  I said it at the time (you can check my posts at the time) that it was a mistake and it looks even worse now.  I don't think it was the change of scenery that helped him, it was the natural progression of a young player figuring it out.

 

 Certainly, just maturing may have something to do with it as well, actually can be a big part of it

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Two of the more interesting points from the Rothstein article . . .

Quote

In the Super Bowl era, only 44 quarterbacks including Stafford have played 10 seasons with one team -- some didn’t do so consecutively -- and started at least one game in each of those seasons. Some quarterbacks, such as Brett Favre, went to other teams as well. Of those 44, only nine had losing records -- something Stafford will have even if the Lions win their four remaining games -- in their tenures with the team. Stafford, with a 64-73 record, has the fourth-worst win percentage among quarterbacks who have played 10 seasons for one team. Only Archie Manning (35-91-3 with New Orleans), Mike Livingston (31-44-1 with Kansas City) and Steve Bartkowski (56-69 with Atlanta) have done worse.

Quote

In this pass-happy era of the NFL, nine active quarterbacks have been with their teams for 10 seasons or more. Stafford is the only one with a win percentage under .500 and the only one not to win a playoff game. Actually, all of the other active quarterbacks have a minimum of four playoff wins -- Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers -- and they are the only other quarterbacks with under-.500 playoff records with 10 years with their teams. Other than Stafford and Joe Flacco, all have been to at least four Pro Bowls as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Two of the more interesting points from the Rothstein article . . .

 

Its just yet another example of how horribly run this org is.  No other team would of stuck with that bum for as long as we have all while  giving him those ridiculous extensions.  Decisions like paying a QB that elevates the play of no one and can only perform if he is surrounded by superstars at every offensive position 15% of your cap is why the Lions are perennial losers. 

 

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:14 PM, MDMAzing said:

Its just yet another example of how horribly run this org is.  No other team would of stuck with that bum for as long as we have all while  giving him those ridiculous extensions.  Decisions like paying a QB that elevates the play of no one and can only perform if he is surrounded by superstars at every offensive position 15% of your cap is why the Lions are perennial losers. 

 

And fans continue to believe the ESPN fairytale about how QB's like Tom Brady magically make everyone around them Pro Bowlers. 

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On 12/5/2018 at 8:02 AM, NYLion said:

Ebron was thriving late last season and the Lions foolishly let him go because of his cap hit.  I said it at the time (you can check my posts at the time) that it was a mistake and it looks even worse now.  I don't think it was the change of scenery that helped him, it was the natural progression of a young player figuring it out.

I don't think the offense will automatically be top 10, that would be a foolish assumption. I'm saying that, on paper, it should be top 10. Whether or not that comes to fruition is another story.

As far as Stafford is concerned, I too have said that a change of scenery would benefit him because the Lions seem to screw up all their good players but this was before the emergence of Golladay and Johnson.  This is the first time that the Lions have had a potential star receiver and running back combo since Sanders and Moore? These two will be featured more prominently next season and with the right play caller playing to their strengths, this could very well be the best supporting cast Stafford has ever had. I'd like to see them try Riddick at slot receiver too. He's probably the best route runner on the team and is severely underutilized because he's the 3rd running back. Get him out of the backfield and into a more prominent receiver role and his numbers will spike up and give Stafford a much needed outlet.

 

ebron still drops the same amount of balls he did here in detroit.  the difference is how the colts use him on offense and how detroit used him.

the perception is different because the colts got him for nothing and the lions passed on aaron donald to draft him.

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14 hours ago, Yoda said:

And fans continue to believe the ESPN fairytale about how QB's like Tom Brady magically make everyone around them Pro Bowlers. 

And where did I say Tom Brady turns everyone he plays with into pro bowlers?  He and other elite QBs make the players around them look better than they actually are.  That's kind of what superstars do...

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I maybe overly pessimistic cause of the way they been playing and maybe the situation isn't as dire as I make it seem but really I don't know what they DONT need at this point.   If you believe Kerryon is legit than not RB but other than that I think you can make a case for every other positional group.    

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6 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Don't need a place kicker or punter.

yeah, but they should draft one to put the rest of the team ON NOTICE!  no one is safe!

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