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Sydney_Fife

Game 18: Knicks @ Pistons

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Boban has appeared in 16 games for the Clippers, averaging 11 minutes per game. 7/5 in those minutes.

The fact that SVG played Eric Moreland over him was one of the most idiotic things I have ever witnessed. He would have been an incredible to use situationally.

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Dumars doesn't look so bad after the Van Gundy experiment now, does he?

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55 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Dumars doesn't look so bad after the Van Gundy experiment now, does he?

And the most asinine part of it was- SVG was the one who signed Boban in the first place. How did you not know what you were getting? 

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

Dumars doesn't look so bad after the Van Gundy experiment now, does he?

SVG sucking doesn't make the back half of the Dumars era any less brutal. Darko, Charlie, Ben and Josh. The Mount Rushmore of Horrendous GMing.  Those 4 moves were arguably worse than anything SVG did as GM, not even an argument in my mind. I always thought SVG the coach was far worse than SVG the GM.

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SVG the coach was awful. Did we ever have any real plays on offense? Seemed like pick and roll or just a bunch of standing around.

For all his focus on defense they never were elite. You can blame some of that on the players, but SVG was also the same guy sacrificing offense by playing an awful Stanley Johnson huge minutes in games where he literally did not score a single point.

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23 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

SVG the coach was awful. Did we ever have any real plays on offense? Seemed like pick and roll or just a bunch of standing around.

For all his focus on defense they never were elite. You can blame some of that on the players, but SVG was also the same guy sacrificing offense by playing an awful Stanley Johnson huge minutes in games where he literally did not score a single point.

Just look at one play as the difference between SVG and Casey.  The last play of the Raptors game with not only one but two excellent in bounds play calls. I don't think SVG would have even had the sense to have Calderon inbounding the ball.

@Mr. Bigglesworth SVG wasted money on Boban, Galloway and Leuer.  However, it's not his fault that Leuer got injured (he was pretty effective when healthy), SVG the coach was the one who wasted Boban and, while clearly overpaid, Galloway does have some good games every now and then. SVG the GM's major failure was his drafting. 

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I don't disagree WRT drafting, but Stan the GM created a situation wherein they were they were cap limited without significant upside and couldn't make the post season in the East.  Those nickels and dimes added up.

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That's true too.  I think the Reggie Jackson is a bit too rich as well for what he brings, heath issues etc.

This is where drafting becomes so vital.  In a cap world, having cheap young talent is gold. This roster would look drastically different (even with the cap issues) had he hit on just one draft, with all due respect to Stanley and Kennard who are serviceable players. This is especially important in a market like Detroit that is usually low on the list of free agent destinations.

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

Dumars doesn't look so bad after the Van Gundy experiment now, does he?

Joe Dumars could've won two games each season after the two NBA Finals years and I'd have a hard time being upset with him. There were two periods that the Pistons were a legitimate quality organization in NBA history and he was a part of both of them - one as a player and one in the front office. The Pistons were crap before the Bad Boys. They had very few solid seasons before the "Going to Work" Pistons came around and that included years with Grant Hill on the squad. After Wallace's era, the team has pretty much gone back to what it was minus those two great eras.

For the most part, people don't want to come to Detroit to play basketball. This isn't a destination place where a star is going to say "I'm going there" and then bring two of his best buddies with them. So what options do you have? Your field of quality players is already limited because if given the choice, most won't come here. Maybe you can draft them. Maybe grab some gems through trades or as FAs. That's what the Pistons have been able to do twice in their franchise history and Dumars created the second one. So, maybe I gloss off his failures during the second half of his front office career a bit too easily, but I think he's owed that. He created a strong team for a pretty solid period of time, one that went to the NBA Finals twice and one that actually won a title. If he had some bad seasons after that era, I can live with it and forgive him for it. The peaks outweigh the bad at least 10-fold.

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11 hours ago, NYLion said:

SVG sucking doesn't make the back half of the Dumars era any less brutal. Darko, Charlie, Ben and Josh. The Mount Rushmore of Horrendous GMing.  Those 4 moves were arguably worse than anything SVG did as GM, not even an argument in my mind. I always thought SVG the coach was far worse than SVG the GM.

Oh, no question that Dumars was Jeckyll and Hyde.  But he also put together a pretty damn good team, which Van Gundy did not.

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13 hours ago, Casimir said:

Oh, no question that Dumars was Jeckyll and Hyde.  But he also put together a pretty damn good team, which Van Gundy did not.

"You either die a hero or you live long enough to become a villain."

I agree btw. I was just referencing the back half of his tenure which unfortunately tarnished his reputation somewhat.  Should have just "died a hero" and resigned after they lost to the Spurs in the finals.

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What killed me about Dumars is that he couldn't have done a worse job post championship if he tried. It was almost like he was actively trying to destroy what he had built. Terrible decision after terrible decision. It was mind boggling and really left me thinking that all the genius people accredited to him in the early days must have been blind luck or being surrounded by good advisers.

SVG was a bad GM and a worse coach. The bad GM I can understand and many people questioned putting him in that role. But his coaching was far, far worse and that really surprised me with his reputation.

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