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The argument for Nick Castellanos

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Jeimer's wrist condition is big unknown. I wouldn't argue he has the skill to be a good big league hitter, but he won't realize that if the wrist won't stay right.

I am also concerned about how well Stewart will come back from his surgery.  Core muscle surgery is not career threatening, but we have seen how long it can take for a player to fully recover.

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Who can forget the excitement of Nick castellanos and his pursuit of the 850 ops back in 2018. 

If they had Cabrera and one other guy doing that, I think it would be more fun to watch the games.  

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9 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Jeimer's wrist condition is big unknown. I wouldn't argue he has the skill to be a good big league hitter, but he won't realize that if the wrist won't stay right.

That’s true. If he is injured, he won’t perform well. The Jeimer wrist injury watch could be almost as exciting as the castellanos quest for the 850 ops.

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

1. Perhaps. Although he was and is untradeable following his career year with the bat, and with less team control than last year, so I don’t see that as being all that likely. 

 

not sure that Nick is UNtradable.

we don't really know if other teams have offered nothing, or offered a Lugo-type player, or offered a Castro-type player, or (this is what I think may be true) if AA is holding out for a Paredes-type player.

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7 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Sorry, I don’t believe there is a single fan out there not related to nick castellanos who says “boy, I wasn’t planning to go to see the tigers, but I can’t miss out on a chance to go see nick castellanos play in person.”

But to answer your question, I would want to go and watch Jeimer, Cabrera, Fulmer, Boyd, and even Stewart and Jones and Norris more than I would want to go see castellanos. 

My 18 year old son actually became a much bigger fan of Castellanos this past season, mainly due to the attitude he portrayed on the podcast he and Greene did.  My son really enjoyed the podcast and had enough sense of Castellanos' attitude during the rebuild to appreciate him and hope he stays.  Not that it would make a difference of us going to a game, but there is at least one fan who would be disappointed if Castellanos was no longer on the team, even though he is realistic to know Castellanos' shortcomings and know that it may be the right move to move him.  

 

I don't know that Castellanos brings in more fans, but I do think non-tendering him would cause more not to show up as it would give the impression that the organization doesn't care about even pretending to be remotely competitive.

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4 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

If they had Cabrera and one other guy doing that, I think it would be more fun to watch the games.  

They might even win 70 games. 

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4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

From the team’s perspective (and they are the one that would be making this decision), the benefit of not having under contract is a slightly worse record and an improved draft spot, plus a savings of over 10 million dollars. 

From a fan's perspective, I could not care less about the 10 million in 2019.  If it was was 10 million for 5 years, it might be a problem, but what else are they going to use that money for next year?  

I have the unpopular perspective that trying for an improved draft spot is poor sportsmanship and bad for the sport.  We now have a situation where perhaps a dozen teams are tanking.  Not only is that bad for the sport as a whole, it also makes it less likely that a re-building team will reach their goal of a high pick.  

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The fact we are discussing non tendering Castellanos , and its a legitimate option, means his trade value is very low. The Cron example made earlier is telling although Nick might be improving. 

So if we can not trade him now then we have to hope he is hitting with a 900 to 950 OPS at the trade deadline. Maybe he can do that.

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Just now, 4hzglory said:

My 18 year old son actually became a much bigger fan of Castellanos this past season, mainly due to the attitude he portrayed on the podcast he and Greene did.  My son really enjoyed the podcast and had enough sense of Castellanos' attitude during the rebuild to appreciate him and hope he stays.  Not that it would make a difference of us going to a game, but there is at least one fan who would be disappointed if Castellanos was no longer on the team, even though he is realistic to know Castellanos' shortcomings and know that it may be the right move to move him.  

 

I don't know that Castellanos brings in more fans, but I do think non-tendering him would cause more not to show up as it would give the impression that the organization doesn't care about even pretending to be remotely competitive.

I think the “pretending to be competitive” ship has already sailed. 

I don’t deny that there will be some fans disappointed if a particular player is let go. I don’t think that is a good reason to hang on to a player. Those fans will return when the team is a contender again. 

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Since Tiger management is trying to trade Casty now then they also don't think he is bringing fans to the ballpark.

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

I think the “pretending to be competitive” ship has already sailed. 

I don’t deny that there will be some fans disappointed if a particular player is let go. I don’t think that is a good reason to hang on to a player. Those fans will return when the team is a contender again. 

I think non-tendering a 26 year old player coming off a 3 WAR season sends a really bad message to fans.  They should be disappointed if that happens.  

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2 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

The fact we are discussing non tendering Castellanos , and its a legitimate option, means his trade value is very low. The Cron example made earlier is telling although Nick might be improving. 

So if we can not trade him now then we have to hope he is hitting with a 900 to 950 OPS at the trade deadline. Maybe he can do that.

Like was mentioned, we don't know that he is untradable.  There were at least 3-4 teams interested in him at the deadline including the Indians.  I have no doubt they could move him at the deadline if they don't have any desire to resign him.   They might not get much, but even a Lugo or Castro is better than the image non-tendering one of the teams most well-known and better hitting young players just to save $.

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As for fans coming to watch players I think its only a select few that draw. Miggy and Verlander. Trout etc. 

As an example a Cleveland Indians Batting helmet signed by Victor Martiniez , and a beautiful one with clear signature is silver sharpie, was Auctioned online for three weeks and sold for a whopping $ 22 bucks. I felt bad. Don't know why.

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3 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Since Tiger management is trying to trade Casty now then they also don't think he is bringing fans to the ballpark.

Let's be clear. Nick absolutely has a lot of fans. No, he's not the only reason they come to the park. Cabrera was never the only reason they come to the park either. But fans are understanding of why a team would trade a player like Nick. They would be far less understanding if they just dumped him for nothing. Hope this makes sense. 

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8 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

The fact we are discussing non tendering Castellanos , and its a legitimate option, means his trade value is very low. The Cron example made earlier is telling although Nick might be improving. 

So if we can not trade him now then we have to hope he is hitting with a 900 to 950 OPS at the trade deadline. Maybe he can do that.

To be fair, I think I’m the only one on board this train. 

The reality is that it will never happen.

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Why so much concern over “the image” or “sending the wrong message”?

The fans already stopped watching and showing up this past season. People can threaten to walk away but they won’t. There will always be a base that shows up no matter what. I think we have hit that level already  

 

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

To be fair, I think I’m the only one on board this train. 

The reality is that it will never happen.

No it won't but I bet you have Chris Illitch on that train with you.

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10 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

Like was mentioned, we don't know that he is untradable.  There were at least 3-4 teams interested in him at the deadline including the Indians.  I have no doubt they could move him at the deadline if they don't have any desire to resign him.   They might not get much, but even a Lugo or Castro is better than the image non-tendering one of the teams most well-known and better hitting young players just to save $.

I have doubt that they can move him at the deadline for even a Lugo or Castro type. 

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

I could say a mean thing back to you but I won’t. 

You're getting weak in your old age.

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7 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Let's be clear. Nick absolutely has a lot of fans. No, he's not the only reason they come to the park. Cabrera was never the only reason they come to the park either. But fans are understanding of why a team would trade a player like Nick. They would be far less understanding if they just dumped him for nothing. Hope this makes sense. 

Point well taken. I am not arguing for or against. its just an interesting idea. I could also see the Tigers non tendering Casty and McCann and Illitch saying "we aren't paying for mediocrity  and will invest in better players at the opportune moment" .

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5 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Point well taken. I am not arguing for or against. its just an interesting idea. I could also see the Tigers non tendering Casty and McCann and Illitch saying "we aren't paying for mediocrity  and will invest in better players at the opportune moment" .

If more fans understood how the year to year contracts work, it would be an easier sell. These things are effectively team options, of course. If more people considered these guys as free agents the team has an option to sign, I think people would be ok with choosing not to sign them. 

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14 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Point well taken. I am not arguing for or against. its just an interesting idea. I could also see the Tigers non tendering Casty and McCann and Illitch saying "we aren't paying for mediocrity  and will invest in better players at the opportune moment" .

I think there is a big difference in non tendering McCann and non tendering Castellanos.  I hope they non tender McCann and I don't think many would have an issue with that.

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

If more fans understood how the year to year contracts work, it would be an easier sell. These things are effectively team options, of course. If more people considered these guys as free agents the team has an option to sign, I think people would be ok with choosing not to sign them. 

It would be cool if ownership gave us such transparency to explain we are saving Nicks salary and signing player X instead for reason Y. 

Because the assumption is we aren’t keeping Nick to buy pizza ovens and a condo on the Rivers. Which if I am Chris Illitch might want to do :)

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29 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

You're getting weak in your old age.

Perhaps.

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41 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Let's be clear. Nick absolutely has a lot of fans. No, he's not the only reason they come to the park. Cabrera was never the only reason they come to the park either. But fans are understanding of why a team would trade a player like Nick. They would be far less understanding if they just dumped him for nothing. Hope this makes sense. 

I am a fan of Castellanos.  I don't think he is that good, but he was their best hitter last year and I have enjoyed watching him develop. He is too good to non-tender and only a really cheap organization would do that.  I would hope they are not that cheap.  I can't see any other reason to do it other than saving money.  

 

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