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Tenacious D

2019 MLB Hall of Fame

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Bonds

Clemens

Martinez

Rivera

Mussina

Schilling

Walker

====================

Close on Kent but he can't go in before Lou.

Petitte, close but no cigar.

Sorry CrimeDog, loved ya but not quite.

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Bonds

Clemens

Mussina

Schilling

Martinez

Walker

Rolen

Rivera

On the fence: Halladay, Jones

I know Rolen is a surprise, but I see him as the Whitaker/Trammell of third basemen.  Very good for a long time, but never regarded as a superstar.  

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Wow, I thought Halladay would be considered a lock.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Wow, I thought Halladay would be considered a lock.

On baseball accomplishments alone Mussina and Schilling have better cases.   Clemens was obviously better, he depends on your steroids stance.   I think Pettitte and Holladay are pretty close, if one goes in the other should.

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13 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Bonds

Clemens

Mussina

Schilling

Martinez

Walker

Rolen

Rivera

On the fence: Halladay, Jones

I know Rolen is a surprise, but I see him as the Whitaker/Trammell of third basemen.  Very good for a long time, but never regarded as a superstar.  

With Santo in you could easily make a case for Rolen.

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

Wow, I thought Halladay would be considered a lock.

A couple of years before he hung them up he sure looked like one, but he ran out of gas fast, his career was over before most people thought it would be, and he ended up kinda short on overall counting stats.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How is Mussina not a lock?

 He never won the World Series.  Yankees were always winning until he showed up, then they quit winning, became LOSERS, then won when he left.  That tells you something.  He's a LOOSER. Not a hall of famer.  Hall of Famers are for winners.

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15 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I know Rolen is a surprise, but I see him as the Whitaker/Trammell of third basemen.  Very good for a long time, but never regarded as a superstar.  

I wouldn't have considered him until you brought.  And now that I look at the numbers, I see the argument for.

I found this shocking:

image.png.d8e3d76578526340dae8d010efc1b0db.png

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2 hours ago, Oblong said:

Wow, I thought Halladay would be considered a lock.

 

 

His career was a bit short.  I think he is a yes, but not a lock for me.  I am going to look at this again when the vote gets closer.  

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1. Bonds

2. Clemens

3. Edgar

4. Mussina

5. Rivera

6. Walker

7. Schilling

8.  Halladay

I had Johan on my ballot last year for the same reasons I have Halladay on this one.  Both of their careers were relatively short but they were both one of the top 2 or 3 at their positions for over 5 or 6 years.   To me that goes a long way. 

 

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I really don't get the Edgar love....I mean I do it's all Sabrametric based...but even that I think its more the player we want him to be. Than he was. 

The counting number he falls shorts in every single way. 2200 hits 300 homers. 1 year with more than 30, 0 years with more than 190 hits, 1 top 5 MVP finish and his best five years were in a crazy live ball era (the late 90s).

He was crazy good at getting on base. Is that one skill enough to make someone a hall of famer?

I mean if we are going to compare him to other hitters of his time, because that is all he was, in what way is he a Hall of Famer?

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36 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I really don't get the Edgar love....I mean I do it's all Sabrametric based...but even that I think its more the player we want him to be. Than he was. 

The counting number he falls shorts in every single way. 2200 hits 300 homers. 1 year with more than 30, 0 years with more than 190 hits, 1 top 5 MVP finish and his best five years were in a crazy live ball era (the late 90s).

He was crazy good at getting on base. Is that one skill enough to make someone a hall of famer?

I mean if we are going to compare him to other hitters of his time, because that is all he was, in what way is he a Hall of Famer?

Fair enough.  I just think he is one of the best RH hitters since WWII.  His OPS+ of 147 is 42nd all time and for reference only 4 points behind Cabrera.

Also I think being the type of hitter Martinez was he gets punished by playing in the era he did.  He wasn't a high launch swing for the fences guy where a juiced ball would really benefit you like it did most of the players then.  He was a line drive and get on base guy, those type of skills carry over no matter what the ball was like.   

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44 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I really don't get the Edgar love....I mean I do it's all Sabrametric based...but even that I think its more the player we want him to be. Than he was. 

The counting number he falls shorts in every single way. 2200 hits 300 homers. 1 year with more than 30, 0 years with more than 190 hits, 1 top 5 MVP finish and his best five years were in a crazy live ball era (the late 90s).

He was crazy good at getting on base. Is that one skill enough to make someone a hall of famer?

I mean if we are going to compare him to other hitters of his time, because that is all he was, in what way is he a Hall of Famer?

He was outstanding at getting on base while having good power (.515 lifetime slugging).  He had a 149 WRC+ which puts him in the top 10 since 1980.

Bonds 173

Trout 172

McGwire 157

Votto 155

Thomas 154

Ramirez 153

Schmidt 151

Cabrera 149

Bagwell 149

Martinez 147

Pujols 146

That is some great hitting company.  It's a matter of whether you think that compensates for his injuries  and lack of a position.  He is not a slam dunk choice, but I think his elite offense should be enough to get him there.  

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In my opinion ..Edgar Martinez belongs.  Last year received 70+% of the vote.. should be voted in on the upcoming ballot.

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11 hours ago, tiger337 said:

He was outstanding at getting on base while having good power (.515 lifetime slugging).  He had a 149 WRC+ which puts him in the top 10 since 1980.

Bonds 173

Trout 172

McGwire 157

Votto 155

Thomas 154

Ramirez 153

Schmidt 151

Cabrera 149

Bagwell 149

Martinez 147

Pujols 146

That is some great hitting company.  It's a matter of whether you think that compensates for his injuries  and lack of a position.  He is not a slam dunk choice, but I think his elite offense should be enough to get him there.  

As I said the saber numbers make it easy, I get it. 

But, as I said the counting numbers. Awards, etc. He's not even close. 

And then when you compare him to other hitters of his time, did anyone at that time thing of him as one of the best? nope. I just don't get all the love when we look back. I think some of its is trying to find some good players we know weren't on steriods to put in from the era. And I'm not saying one way or the other, but I am saying his career basically didn't start until age 27 and his peak was 31-37. 

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Martinez is interesting.  He didn't hit his dominance until later in his career, after he was moved off of 3B.  The timing of it is similar to Adrian Beltre, although the circumstances aren't necessarily the same (the former a DH, the latter could probably field 3B for a few more seasons).

Regarding Beltre, I don't know that I have ever heard an interview of him until this week on MLB radio.  He was a pretty good listen.

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On 11/20/2018 at 8:45 PM, Keepleyland2 said:

Rivera.

 

 

I'm done

Agreed. Additionally, Bonds is a screaming NO! 

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