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Gehringer_2

UM B-Ball 18-19

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10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

apparently the buzz around Juwan is increasing.

Sure but does he have a masters degree

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7 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Sure but does he have a masters degree

I guess if you are taking the long view to maintain a program you want a younger coach who can stick around for a while. I think they would be glad to take few down years to find a Krzyzewski who might be there 20 years. The problem for UM is that when they have hired young guys they have gotten Frieder and Ellerbe and Amaker and it's been old guys like Orr, Fischer and Beilein that stopped the bleeding.

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It’s a done deal. I think this is about as good as could be expected. 

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8 minutes ago, Shelton said:

It’s a done deal. I think this is about as good as could be expected. 

I guess the two big question are will any of Beilein's staff will be asked to stay and will any of them, and hHow many years do suppose they will give him?

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

I guess the two big question are will any of Beilein's staff will be asked to stay and will any of them, and hHow many years do suppose they will give him?

We will see on the assistants. He’s getting a five year contract for what it’s worth. 

I do think he will be a great recruiter. 

That star recruit that re-opened his recruitment appears intrigued. 

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3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

We will see on the assistants. He’s getting a five year contract for what it’s worth. 

I do think he will be a great recruiter. 

That star recruit that re-opened his recruitment appears intrigued. 

Is that his nephew?

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His nephew is Jaden McDaniel out of the NW, a 5* PF.   Shelton is referencing Jalen Wilson iirc. 

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36 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I do think he will be a great recruiter.

His history will get him in a lot of doors initially, but if he doesn't win that won't last but a couple of seasons. My reservation would be that he has been away from the NCAA so long that his comfort level/competence dealing with the problems of 18 yr olds will not be what a hire from inside the college ranks would be, but who knows?

I would put it this way I guess. If you are settled on giving a shot to an inexperienced coach, I don't see how you would do much better than Juwan. It's more the policy question of whether that is the right approach for this program at this time. I'm sure that exact question was debated at the Flemming bldg at pay grades way above mine and they decided what they decided.

I believe that at the top of the food chain at the U, hiring a fresh face does comport with a sense of the University's overall mission. I've been hearing the criticism today that the U should have backed the Brinks truck up to Beilein's door to persuade him to stay. In the same way I don't the the University's philosophy is ever to try to prevent people who accomplish things here from going on to bigger things.. I could see them matching any offer from another school, but if a guy's ambition is to go to the big stage while he still can, it seems perverse for a university of all places to try to talk him out of it.

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Rivals is reporting that Wilson is back in play for UM.  He is or has visited UNC and Kansas.

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49 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

His history will get him in a lot of doors initially, but if he doesn't win that won't last but a couple of seasons. My reservation would be that he has been away from the NCAA so long that his comfort level/competence dealing with the problems of 18 yr olds will not be what a hire from inside the college ranks would be, but who knows?

I would put it this way I guess. If you are settled on giving a shot to an inexperienced coach, I don't see how you would do much better than Juwan. It's more the policy question of whether that is the right approach for this program at this time. I'm sure that exact question was debated at the Flemming bldg at pay grades way above mine and they decided what they decided.

I believe that at the top of the food chain at the U, hiring a fresh face does comport with a sense of the University's overall mission. I've been hearing the criticism today that the U should have backed the Brinks truck up to Beilein's door to persuade him to stay. In the same way I don't the the University's philosophy is ever to try to prevent people who accomplish things here from going on to bigger things.. I could see them matching any offer from another school, but if a guy's ambition is to go to the big stage while he still can, it seems perverse for a university of all places to try to talk him out of it.

Regarding the recruiting, that’s basically the case for whomever you hire. It’s not like John Beilein was opening a lot of doors at first based on winning, either. Better to get in the doors and get a chance than to not get in them at all.

I don’t really think the other factors you listed had much of an impact on the decision making. I don’t think they targeted an inexperienced coach for any mission-based reason. I don’t think a philosophy had anything to do with not trying to pay Beilein to stay. 

As for the hire, I think they wanted the best coach for the job. Unfortunately, at this point of the offseason, there simply weren’t a lot of experienced candidates that were appealing. Howard has a lot of things going for him. And I suppose one of them is that he hasn’t yet failed in the NCAA. Most of the other names mentioned were examples of NCAA failures or mediocre at best performances. I’ll take an unproven NBA assistant with some sizzle and a legit connection to the program and a great reputation over a dyed-in-the-wool NCAA stooge who has proven to be incapable of any sustained success even with ample resources (like Ed Cooley or Shaka smart).

Maybe it doesn’t work out. Maybe in four years Juwan is fired. But at least if that happens it will be in March, and Michigan can be at the front of the line with their bags of cash to hire the next big thing (like a Nate Oats type). If Beilein has missed the tournament this year and left for the NBA immediately, I’m pretty confident this would have gone differently. 

Hopefully we will look back on this as a stroke of luck that the timing was such that we ended up with juwan. 

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40 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I don’t really think the other factors you listed had much of an impact on the decision making. I don’t think they targeted an inexperienced coach for any mission-based reason. I don’t think a philosophy had anything to do with not trying to pay Beilein to stay. 

No - I only meant that that decision had to be signed off on and they could find reasons to do so. I don't think Manual makes what is basically an out of the blue signing without the backing of his President.

So this is the first year that guys that don't get drafted can come back? So how do you recruit when you don't know how many spots you have? I know school probably love that they won't lose to so many but that does seem to create a large headache as well.

 

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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

No - I only meant that that decision had to be signed off on and they could find reasons to do so. I don't think Manual makes what is basically an out of the blue signing without the backing of his President.

So this is the first year that guys that don't get drafted can come back? So how do you recruit when you don't know how many spots you have? I know school probably love that they won't lose to so many but that does seem to create a large headache as well.

 

I’m sure Warde discussed it with schissel, but I also think that Warde was hired for a reason and he doesn’t really need approval from above. He was hired to run the department and he’s running it. He knows enough not to hire rick pitino.

guys only have a few more days to pull out of the draft. The “undrafted” rule is not in effect and there is no guarantee it will ever go into effect. 

The only change to the draft stuff is that kids can hire agents and still return to school if they pull out of the draft. 

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24 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I’m sure Warde discussed it with schissel, but I also think that Warde was hired for a reason and he doesn’t really need approval from above. He was hired to run the department and he’s running it. He knows enough not to hire rick pitino.

guys only have a few more days to pull out of the draft. The “undrafted” rule is not in effect and there is no guarantee it will ever go into effect. 

The only change to the draft stuff is that kids can hire agents and still return to school if they pull out of the draft. 

I've seen the $$ approval matrix at the U, but I don't know if the Athletic Dept gets a waiver. In general any spending as big as a head coach's contract would have to go to Schlissels office.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I've seen the $$ approval matrix at the U, but I don't know if the Athletic Dept gets a waiver. In general any deal that big has to go to Schlissels office.

Sure, but it’s not like his office has much of a basis, if any, in determining what would be the best hire. Whether or not the approval is technically required is different than whether or not approval and insight actually needs to be sought and considered. 

I imagine Warde would say, he’s the best choice and here’s why, and mark would say, ok I trust your judgment. 

I feel pretty strongly that any disqualifying characteristic that Mark would know enough to ask about would have already disqualified such candidates from even getting an interview or consideration from Warde. 

I don’t think Warde ever gets his job if he wasn’t already aware of the minimum expectations for major hires.

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10 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Sure, but it’s not like his office has much of a basis, if any, in determining what would be the best hire. Whether or not the approval is technically required is different than whether or not approval and insight actually needs to be sought and considered. 

I imagine Warde would say, he’s the best choice and here’s why, and mark would say, ok I trust your judgment. 

I feel pretty strongly that any disqualifying characteristic that Mark would know enough to ask about would have already disqualified such candidates from even getting an interview or consideration from Warde. 

I don’t think Warde ever gets his job if he wasn’t already aware of the minimum expectations for major hires.

I really don't have any idea what kind of interest Schlissel has in what goes on down South State Street way beyond them staying out of trouble. He  seems to keep his distance. MarySue apparently was pretty involved in some of the Bill Martin/RichRod etc.. Schlissel spent a long time at Brown where there are no revenue sports, and then Cal, which has revenue sports but they are pretty poor step children, though they did drop a bundle refurbishing the football stadium not too long ago ?

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On 5/22/2019 at 4:44 PM, Shelton said:

Hopefully we will look back on this as a stroke of luck that the timing was such that we ended up with juwan. 

From all reports Juwan will be fine on the coaching aspects - Xs&Os, the locker room, etc - I question how he'll be at the essentially 24/7/365 recruiting game.   It seems like that's what drives coaches out of college ball.  He's likely to have a rough 1st year or two on the court so by year 3 UM should have a good idea of how things are working out.

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10 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

From all reports Juwan will be fine on the coaching aspects - Xs&Os, the locker room, etc - I question how he'll be at the essentially 24/7/365 recruiting game.   It seems like that's what drives coaches out of college ball.  He's likely to have a rough 1st year or two on the court so by year 3 UM should have a good idea of how things are working out.

Best case scenario, he has tasted what big money can buy, found it doesn't float his boat but the game still does. (I don't know the details but he apparently cancelled a project to build himself a big estate house).  You would think a guy with average talent who kept himself in the league for 18 year is disciplined enough to put in the time if he wants to. The unknown is the whether he will have the connection to 18 yrs olds. That kind of thing is more or less metaphysical - I don't know that there is any good predictor for it except seeing what happens. It's why every rookie head coaches is a risk.

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from all accounts, juwan is pretty connected in the aau scene.  it will be interesting to see if michigan gets back into the game for 5* kids or of they can continue to recruit the 3/4 star kids.

does michigan return to the bagmen and shoe guys from what they used to do? 

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16 minutes ago, Buddha said:

from all accounts, juwan is pretty connected in the aau scene.  it will be interesting to see if michigan gets back into the game for 5* kids or of they can continue to recruit the 3/4 star kids.

does michigan return to the bagmen and shoe guys from what they used to do? 

If it happens it will be because no-one upstairs knows about it. This admin is not OSU's admin. The don't care about sports enough to go that route. 

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46 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Do you think at the time Michigan AD Joe Roberson had no idea about Ed Martin and what he was doing?

A couple of points, Roberson did not work in the Fleming building, which is the group I was referring to. And once burned, twice a lot more shy. Note that no-one from that regime is still here. The Martin stuff also  happened under Duderstat and Bollinger, neither of whom were very good at being President of  UM. The top administration has been much better under Coleman and Schlissel.

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