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Gehringer_2

UM B-Ball 18-19

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I don't have a good feeling about this.  

 

Feels a lot like Brad Ausmus.   I think he's in over his head.     Team should have elevated an assistant as an interim head coach and then did a proper search after the season.      

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Odds are the Howard experiment will not go well. 

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32 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

Odds are the Howard experiment will not go well. 

The track record of NBA players going back to colleges is not encouraging and not retaining staff to ease his transition (e.g.Yaklish) is just going to make it tougher. We can hope that one thing in his favor is that Juwan was never a star. The history seems to argue stars have a tougher transition to any kind of coaching than journeymen/also ran guys. (well, maybe Penny is an exception that proves the rule).

It is certain that the people who think it has to all work out just because an NBA guy will be able to draw kids that want to go to the NBA are whistling past the graveyard with that line. Beilein put more kids in the NBA in his tenure than anyone in the conference and he had never sniffed the NBA till he took the Cleveland gig. But those are the results that sell recruits.

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Not slamming him as a person at all.  He was a great NCAA player, a very good NBA player, but no Head Coach experience......does that ever really work?  

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Juwan will be a great head coach for Michigan. 

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Juwan will be a great head coach for Michigan. 

My sarcasm meter is making odd buzzing noises.

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12 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Not slamming him as a person at all.  He was a great NCAA player, a very good NBA player, but no Head Coach experience......does that ever really work?  

All coaches start somewhere.  I do not think the fact he was a great NCAA player and had a very good NBA career has any relationship on the quality of coach he will be.

Coaching is hard.  Very few do it really well.  I think the reason there are limited examples of guys who were highly effective players and highly effective coaches is because each of those accomplishments are highly rare on their own.  We should expect there aren't many examples of two highly rare things happening in succession.

But the first leg of that (the playing career) is past us.  I don't think it influences the likelihood of the second.  Or, to the extent it influences it, I suspect it has more to do with a guy like Juwan getting a shot without the extensive coaching background typically associated with such a hire because of who he is, and had he been forced to gain that experience, it is possible he would have been weeded out before the opportunity became a consideration.

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30 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

All coaches start somewhere.  I do not think the fact he was a great NCAA player and had a very good NBA career has any relationship on the quality of coach he will be.

Coaching is hard.  Very few do it really well.  I think the reason there are limited examples of guys who were highly effective players and highly effective coaches is because each of those accomplishments are highly rare on their own.  We should expect there aren't many examples of two highly rare things happening in succession.

But the first leg of that (the playing career) is past us.  I don't think it influences the likelihood of the second.  Or, to the extent it influences it, I suspect it has more to do with a guy like Juwan getting a shot without the extensive coaching background because of who he is, and had he been forced to gain that experience, it is possible he would have been weeded out before the opportunity became a consideration.

good points - especially the last one. 

I suppose what is  at work here is that the superficial take is that "knowledge of the game" is a major determinant, but that is just a property, it's not a skillset. Sort of like that knowledge about art doesn't make you a good artist.

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Correct.  Doing something well only means one understands it well enough to execute it.

It says nothing about someone's ability to articulate it well and motivate the necessary behaviors to achieve the desired end.

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And further, the street cred / benefit of the doubt a new coach receives from their athletes for having accomplished great things is a temporary thing.  It can get your foot in the door with a recruit, it can get guys to try something new that they might initially resist at practice, but unless the results come in a reasonable time, that benefit is lost.

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By all accounts, Juwan was a well regarded assistant coach with the heat working under some pretty good mentors. He was already being mentioned with nba job openings before the Michigan job opened up. 

His status as a former star player for Michigan shouldn’t cloud that. 

That said, if he hadn’t played for Michigan, it’s not likely he would have been selected. But his history with the program isn’t irrelevant. I think it does help grant him a level of respect among the players, both current and with potential recruits. 

I’m optimistic that if he can recruit well, he’s going to win. I think he’s going to be a good recruiter. 

Yes, he lacks head coach experience and college coaching experience. But he doesn’t lack coaching experience. 

Luke Yaklich has college coaching experience, but also no head coaching experience. He could have been a good choice, or not. 

I haven’t seen any evidence that juwan will be a bad coach. No one really knows. 

It’s fine to be pessimistic, but I think there are an equal number of reasons to be optimistic. 

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

No one really knows.

To me this is really the only thing thing that is debatable about the hire. On one hand, unless Krzyzewski suddenly develops an obsession for maize and blue, whether hte new coach is going to win was always going to be an unknown, but not all things are unknown. They had the choice of making a conservative safe hire in terms of the unknowns around the management of the program, or of making a reach hire. Once that decision was made in the direction it was, Juwan is a fine hire. I don't know that I can say I am surprised at that choice of direction or not. After all the program failures post Johnny Orr, and the tremendous relief from all that that John Beilein was, I could have understood a strong administration desire not to put the program at any kind of *management* risk again and thus looking for an experienced head coach with a track record of running a program the way they wanted it run. OTOH, any one from the outside might have to spend some time at this institution to realize real depth of the commitment to diversity as an institutional mission. To have another old white guy managing a sport that is mostly minority athletes was not going to be the leadership's top choice and I mean both at Manuel's office and at Schlissel's office. It's not talking out of turn at all to simply acknowledge that fact. There are not many minority coaches out there that otherwise looked like John Beilein so that simply was not much of an option.

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This whole "Michigan Man" thing is beyond annoying.   It was used when Bill Frieder accepted the Arizona State job right before the tournament and Bo didn't want him coaching the team.   I get that.    But this thing has gotten out of control and it's attributed to a guy who was not a Michigan Man when he took the job.    

This was a mess because of the timing more than anything.   

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9 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

This whole "Michigan Man" thing is beyond annoying.   It was used when Bill Frieder accepted the Arizona State job right before the tournament and Bo didn't want him coaching the team.   I get that.    But this thing has gotten out of control and it's attributed to a guy who was not a Michigan Man when he took the job.    

This was a mess because of the timing more than anything.   

it's just a media thing. Sure if they hire an alum it make a nice bit of story line. But if you look recent history overall I don't think the UM athletic dept has any problem hiring outsiders - Amaker, Beilein, Rich Rod. Pearson's was an assistant here but his Alumni ties are to MTU.

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

This whole "Michigan Man" thing is beyond annoying.   It was used when Bill Frieder accepted the Arizona State job right before the tournament and Bo didn't want him coaching the team.   I get that.    But this thing has gotten out of control and it's attributed to a guy who was not a Michigan Man when he took the job.    

This was a mess because of the timing more than anything.   

It’s not that big of a deal. 

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He doesn't have to coach.  He needs to recruit.  If he can recruit, he can win.

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given the status of recruits michigan is offering, its apparent that theyre back in the big time recruit game!  maybe they can get back into the bagman game and compete with the shoe whores like izzo, calipari and coach k?

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On 6/18/2019 at 9:55 PM, LooseGoose said:

Speaking of day drinking.

Sometimes I forget that the only 5* kids who take no money go to MSU and Duke.

Speaking of day drinking.

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9 hours ago, Buddha said:

Sometimes I forget that the only 5* kids who take no money go to MSU and Duke.

Speaking of day drinking.

Whatever.  It was a cheap shot at Izzo, but whatever makes you feel good.   All evidence including the recent trial show that if $$ is involved, Izzo isn't.   Beilein was clean too, it was nice to have both programs held up in a good light.

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paying players is the least of the horrible things going on at msu.  but you be you, lg.

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