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Golden Tate to Philly

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47 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

My guess they have someone they want to plug into that role on the team already, they have plenty of good receivers to spread the ball around...he gone after this year and we got a thiird rounder for missing him for 9 games?  Worth it.

I think BQ wanted to plug Kerryon Johnson into the role of picking up 3rd and 4, and in general to keep JBC and Stafford from relying on Tate as a replacement for a running game.

The team’s wins this season have been in games where they have 33, 28, and 35 carries; average of 32 a game. In their losses, they’ve had 15, 18, 20, and 13 rushes; average of 16.5 a game. 

Also, in the losses, Tate had 15, 13, 8, and 12 targets, or 12 per game. In the wins Tate had 8, 7, and 6 targets, or 7 per game.

Obviously the situation has a lot to do with this, and you can’t just keep running into a brick wall. But in Seattle, and in previous games, they abandoned the run way too early. 

BQ seems to be forcing JBC and Stafford to stick with the run a lot longer than they are used to. 

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I'm not buying this ulterior motive.  Tate was a free agent. I'm sure Quinn and Tate had extension talks and they weren't close. The Patriots are famous for making these kinds of moves.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not buying this ulterior motive.  Tate was a free agent. I'm sure Quinn and Tate had extension talks and they weren't close. The Patriots are famous for making these kinds of moves.

Obviously this is a “Patriot Way” kind of move.

Nevertheless, Tate was telling the press he wanted to stay and thought a new deal could get done. Nobody knows what he would have been willing to accept. 

Next to Stafford, Tate was the most important part of the offense. There is no way BQ made the decision to trade him without considering the implications for the offense this season. 

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48 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I think BQ wanted to plug Kerryon Johnson into the role of picking up 3rd and 4, and in general to keep JBC and Stafford from relying on Tate as a replacement for a running game.

The team’s wins this season have been in games where they have 33, 28, and 35 carries; average of 32 a game. In their losses, they’ve had 15, 18, 20, and 13 rushes; average of 16.5 a game. 

Also, in the losses, Tate had 15, 13, 8, and 12 targets, or 12 per game. In the wins Tate had 8, 7, and 6 targets, or 7 per game.

Obviously the situation has a lot to do with this, and you can’t just keep running into a brick wall. But in Seattle, and in previous games, they abandoned the run way too early. 

BQ seems to be forcing JBC and Stafford to stick with the run a lot longer than they are used to. 

Most teams will abandon the run when behind early.  It is hard to use how many RPG they have in wins and losses as a barometer.  If they are up early they will run more.  If they are down early they will throw more.  I doubt BQ had this thought when trading Tate..I honestly think it was as simple as them having someone they want to plug in and give more reps in that role and them getting a pretty good return for a guy who was not going to play more than 9 more games with Detroit.

NE has done this a few times in the past.  Had a pretty good player they dumped mid season for a pick or 2.  I think it is a great way to build a respectable franchise.  

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16 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Most teams will abandon the run when behind early.  It is hard to use how many RPG they have in wins and losses as a barometer.  If they are up early they will run more.  If they are down early they will throw more.  I doubt BQ had this thought when trading Tate..I honestly think it was as simple as them having someone they want to plug in and give more reps in that role and them getting a pretty good return for a guy who was not going to play more than 9 more games with Detroit.

NE has done this a few times in the past.  Had a pretty good player they dumped mid season for a pick or 2.  I think it is a great way to build a respectable franchise.  

Yes, teams run more when they are ahead and less when they are behind. Obviously.

But yes, I also believe BQ is very upset that he has invested so much in the running game and JBC is not pounding the rock. 

I don’t see this solely as a “let’s bank picks” move, I also see it as a culture change move. 

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4 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Obviously this is a “Patriot Way” kind of move.

Nevertheless, Tate was telling the press he wanted to stay and thought a new deal could get done. Nobody knows what he would have been willing to accept. 

Next to Stafford, Tate was the most important part of the offense. There is no way BQ made the decision to trade him without considering the implications for the offense this season. 

Yes, the Patriots have a considerable history of trading guys -- regardless of how popular they are with the fans or how well they've played for the Patriots -- when those guys started to decline or were about to get what the  Pats considered too expensive in relation to their age and production, or just letting them walk so someone else can overpay for them.  And that approach seems to have worked somewhat better than anything the Lions have done over the last six decades. 

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after watching the seattle game, did any lions fans have expectations that this team with golden tate was a super bowl team?

maybe a playoff team? maybe?

even with tate they could easily finish last in the division.  aka, their ancestral home.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

after watching the seattle game, did any lions fans have expectations that this team with golden tate was a super bowl team?

maybe a playoff team? maybe?

even with tate they could easily finish last in the division.  aka, their ancestral home.

It made me think that wherever they end up isn’t likely to be much different with or without Tate. If the defense and run game don’t show up, they will lose. If they do, they can win. 

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

after watching the seattle game, did any lions fans have expectations that this team with golden tate was a super bowl team?

maybe a playoff team? maybe?

even with tate they could easily finish last in the division.  aka, their ancestral home.

Their path to the playoffs this season was to come out of the gates as a top-5 scoring team, because they were bound to give up a lot of points early in the season with a new defense. That plan was pretty much shot by the end of quarter three of game one. They’ve had a few good games running since then, but they are not a running team yet  

This team excels at one variety of situational football: down by more than two scores. Nobody exemplified this more than Golden Tate, who had some of the most thrilling late-game YAC catches ever. Now it’s time for this team to learn how to excel in other situations. 

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Patricia let Abdullah return kicks after he fumbled. Brandon Powell is our other return man. Powell is our new slot receiver replacing Tate. I wonder if that deal was in the works? Not caring if Tate got hurt but protecting Powell?

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

after watching the seattle game, did any lions fans have expectations that this team with golden tate was a super bowl team?

maybe a playoff team? maybe?

even with tate they could easily finish last in the division.  aka, their ancestral home.

After the 0-2 start, their probability of making the playoffs was slim. They would have needed to win 10 out of remaining 14 to seriously think about making the playoffs. Yes, they could possibly win a weak division with 9 wins, but since the 0-2 start, we've gone 3-2. That means, at worst, we need to go 6-3 the rest of the way. Possible? Yes. Probable? No, not really.

 

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if tate walked at the end of the season as a FA would the lions have gotten a draft pick anyways?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, kgeorge78 said:

if tate walked at the end of the season as a FA would the lions have gotten a draft pick anyways?

 

 

From what I understand it depends on your cap situation and what you spend in FA and since the Lions have alot of space and figure to spend this off-season I don't think they would have. 

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I don't think they would either. The comp pick wouldn't have been until 2020. The rule is the team must have more or better comp free agents leave than gain. The Lions will have cap space and likely spend it. Philadelphia doesn't have the cap space so they will likely get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick. It really or a good trade for both teams. 

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On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 1:47 PM, John_Brian_K said:

Most teams will abandon the run when behind early.  It is hard to use how many RPG they have in wins and losses as a barometer.  If they are up early they will run more.  If they are down early they will throw more.  I doubt BQ had this thought when trading Tate..I honestly think it was as simple as them having someone they want to plug in and give more reps in that role and them getting a pretty good return for a guy who was not going to play more than 9 more games with Detroit.

NE has done this a few times in the past.  Had a pretty good player they dumped mid season for a pick or 2.  I think it is a great way to build a respectable franchise.  

JBK...one of my favorite 'well duh' stats of all time.  Dallas was 43-5 in games Tony Dorsett rushed for 100y. 

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6 hours ago, knoxvegas said:

JBK...one of my favorite 'well duh' stats of all time.  Dallas was 43-5 in games Tony Dorsett rushed for 100y. 

Yes, and I’m sure in every one of those games the opposing defense said, “Tony Dorsett is a Hall of Famer. Let’s roll out the red carpet for him.”

And I’m sure that in none of those games did Tony Dorsett get tackled for no gain two or three carries in a row, and the OC never had to ask the question, “Should I abandon the run game?”

The point is not that teams with the lead are more likely to run the ball. The point is that if this team is going to lose the SOL reputation, they have to line up and punch other teams in the mouth. But they can’t immediately give up and retreat to letting Stafford just chuck it around when they get punched back.

BQ has a 1st, a 1st, a 3rd, a FA, and a FA along the line, and a back that some experts had as the best in his draft. JBC is getting that back eleven carries a game. It is not enough. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 10:37 PM, kgeorge78 said:

if tate walked at the end of the season as a FA would the lions have gotten a draft pick anyways?

 

 

Draft pick wouldn't have come until 2020. And if they spend a lot in free agency this offseason, it would be a 4th or 5th rounder at best.

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I would have traded Tate for Snacks straight up and I would have traded a 5th for a 3rd straight up.

Agree on Tate for snacks. 

But a 5th rounder for a 3rd rounder? That’s ******* crazy. 

I would probably trade any impending FA for a 3rd rounder in the NFL. Especially if my team was more likely than not to miss the playoffs, and especially if the guy being traded is a wide receiver. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 10:20 PM, Jason_R said:

My suspicion is that Patricia doesn’t trust him with the playbook. He started playing football very late, and he is a one-dimensional player. Patricia just has more confidence in other players. 

Patricia is also a playbook junkie, & the "Patriot Way" is to get players who can do multiple things. That's not Ansah.

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13 hours ago, djhutch said:

Patricia is also a playbook junkie, & the "Patriot Way" is to get players who can do multiple things. That's not Ansah.

https://www.detroitlions.com/news/ansah-to-play-2018-season-on-franchise-tag

“Matt (Patricia) got on board and Ziggy was the No. 1 conversation," Lions general manager Bob Quinn said earlier this offseason after deciding to use the team’s franchise tag on Ansah. "What are we going to do with Ziggy? I had my thoughts. It didn’t take long for me to show Matt why we should do what we did.”

Maybe reading too much into things, but this sounds a touch like Quinn talked Patricia into it. 

Anyway, he comes off the books next year, and that is money that can hopefully be used to upgrade the defensive backs. 

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