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ROMAD1

Directions and Objectives For A Future Mainstream Party

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18 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Beware POC & minorities, angry white people are supporting outright racism and xenophobia with no shame. 

yes, but enough about jeremy corbyn...

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think he's unknown to black voters.  biden is known because of his relationship with obama.

The fact that black voters in his own city have outright admonished him and rejected him makes it clear that he won't have success with the black voting bloc. Almost every story of him with the black community is one that makes him less and less appealing to black voters, and there is a lot of video and audio that will turn black voters off. 

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

they won by 3 million votes with the most unpopular democratic candidate of all time and lost on an electoral college fluke.

i think it would be difficult for sanders and warren to win with a solid economy, but they could.  trump would still be the favorite against either of them, imo.

after sleeping on the british election results, i think its hard to draw a direct parallel because corbyn was perceived so negatively.  without him in the race you probably have a much closer election.

can you draw a parallel with sanders?  im not sure.  both come from the same anti-american, anti-israel, anti-imperialism school.  but corbyn seems dumber than sanders politically.  where bernie has cozied up to dictators as long as they hated america and proposed to love socialism, corbyn just couldnt say he didnt love hamas or hezbollah or iran.

i think it will pretty hard for republicans to accuse jewish bernie sanders of being anti-semitic.  but it will be easy to say "he's going to raise your taxes and turn your doctors office into the dmv" which will be enough to defeat him.

1. All current evidence shows that Sanders or Warren would beat Trump in a general election. 

2. Calling Sanders "anti-American" is a f*** joke. And if being "anti imperialism" is a negative thing, I really don't know what to say to you.

3. Republicans will accuse Sanders of everything under the sun, because that is what they do. Literally any Democrat will be called un-American, because that is what the Republican party thrives on.

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11 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

The fact that black voters in his own city have outright admonished him and rejected him makes it clear that he won't have success with the black voting bloc. Almost every story of him with the black community is one that makes him less and less appealing to black voters, and there is a lot of video and audio that will turn black voters off. 

what video and audio?  the one video from like 10 years ago that was taken out of context, cut and edited by the warren campaign and then sent to The Root so they could "call out" buttigieg?  i'll give black voters the credit they deserve that if they looked at his actual policies they'd realize he'd be the most socially progressive person ever elected, regardless of the fact that he hasnt been able to cure racism in south bend indiana in his short time as mayor.

but in the immediacy, it will be difficult for him to win the democratic primaries without black support.  if he were able to pull it off, it will be difficult to win the general election without black support.  if he did win the nomination, 1) he would have gained black support during the primaries and 2) i suspect he would have a black vice presidential running mate.

at this point, i would think any non-biden democrat would have a black vice presidential candidate.  the democrats have to have a huge black turnout to win.

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

what video and audio?  the one video from like 10 years ago that was taken out of context, cut and edited by the warren campaign and then sent to The Root so they could "call out" buttigieg?  i'll give black voters the credit they deserve that if they looked at his actual policies they'd realize he'd be the most socially progressive person ever elected, regardless of the fact that he hasnt been able to cure racism in south bend indiana in his short time as mayor.

but in the immediacy, it will be difficult for him to win the democratic primaries without black support.  if he were able to pull it off, it will be difficult to win the general election without black support.  if he did win the nomination, 1) he would have gained black support during the primaries and 2) i suspect he would have a black vice presidential running mate.

at this point, i would think any non-biden democrat would have a black vice presidential candidate.  the democrats have to have a huge black turnout to win.

The Buttegeig issue with older black voters has nothing to do with race

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14 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

1. All current evidence shows that Sanders or Warren would beat Trump in a general election. 

2. Calling Sanders "anti-American" is a f*** joke. And if being "anti imperialism" is a negative thing, I really don't know what to say to you.

3. Republicans will accuse Sanders of everything under the sun, because that is what they do. Literally any Democrat will be called un-American, because that is what the Republican party thrives on.

1) i dont think the current national polls reflect what will happen in the general election and the electoral college.  i could see bernie winning michigan amd maybe minnesota, but losing iowa and pennsylvania and ohio amd wisconsin and texas and arizona and north carolina and virginia and losing the election.  florida too probably but that might be close.

2) i think bernie's foreign policy views see america as an imperialist power and he has aligned himself with those regimes who opposed american foreign policy in the past.  thats what i meant.  you disagree with that?

3) thats what politicians do.  republicans and democrats alike.  the question is how effective it will be.  i think much of the republican presidential campaign will be "yeah trump is an *** hole, but look at these crazy *** democrats who want to raise your taxes, give reparations to black people, take away your health insurance, take away your car, and make you stop eating hamburgers."

and, unfortunately, i think it will work.  there's nothing that scares middle america more than giving free **** to black people.

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Just now, ROMAD1 said:

The Buttegeig issue with older black voters has nothing to do with race

ive heard that too but i dont know if i agree.

they tried that here in chicago.  our current mayor lori lightfoot is gay and her opponent in the run off (another black woman) was sending out leaflets to the black churches in town reminding them that she was gay.  it didnt work. lori won in a landslide.

but this is chicago and not the south.  it might be different down there for a gay white boy from indiana.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

ive heard that too but i dont know if i agree.

they tried that here in chicago.  our current mayor lori lightfoot is gay and her opponent in the run off (another black woman) was sending out leaflets to the black churches in town reminding them that she was gay.  it didnt work. lori won in a landslide.

but this is chicago and not the south.  it might be different down there for a gay white boy from indiana.

My perspective is an older black voter who just shakes his head when his name comes up.  That's a one-off...so draw no conclusions but it does conform to other things I've read.

The analysis that Pete and Warren are both playthings of the out-of-touch white elites is probably on target.  

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17 minutes ago, Buddha said:

they won by 3 million votes with the most unpopular democratic candidate of all time and lost on an electoral college fluke.

i think it would be difficult for sanders and warren to win with a solid economy, but they could.  trump would still be the favorite against either of them, imo.

after sleeping on the british election results, i think its hard to draw a direct parallel because corbyn was perceived so negatively.  without him in the race you probably have a much closer election.

can you draw a parallel with sanders?  im not sure.  both come from the same anti-american, anti-israel, anti-imperialism school.  but corbyn seems dumber than sanders politically.  where bernie has cozied up to dictators as long as they hated america and proposed to love socialism, corbyn just couldnt say he didnt love hamas or hezbollah or iran.

i think it will pretty hard for republicans to accuse jewish bernie sanders of being anti-semitic.  but it will be easy to say "he's going to raise your taxes and turn your doctors office into the dmv" which will be enough to defeat him.

Is it really a fluke when it could happen again?

Solid economy, for who, pensioners and retirees? Not for millennials or Gen Z. Again, it is this out of touch rhetoric that keeps Democrats out of power. Your depiction of progressive policies as "anti-American" and the implication of "anti-Imperialism" as a negative thing makes me wonder why you just don't register as a Republican.

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9 minutes ago, Buddha said:

what video and audio?  the one video from like 10 years ago that was taken out of context, cut and edited by the warren campaign and then sent to The Root so they could "call out" buttigieg?  i'll give black voters the credit they deserve that if they looked at his actual policies they'd realize he'd be the most socially progressive person ever elected, regardless of the fact that he hasnt been able to cure racism in south bend indiana in his short time as mayor.

but in the immediacy, it will be difficult for him to win the democratic primaries without black support.  if he were able to pull it off, it will be difficult to win the general election without black support.  if he did win the nomination, 1) he would have gained black support during the primaries and 2) i suspect he would have a black vice presidential running mate.

at this point, i would think any non-biden democrat would have a black vice presidential candidate.  the democrats have to have a huge black turnout to win.

 

Quote

Buttigieg has strived mightily to win support among the black community, especially on his home turf. His firing of South Bend’s first black police chief when he entered office in 2012 set off protests at the time, and Buttigieg wrote in his memoir that the controversy “affected my relationship with the African-American community in particular for years to come.” This past June, in the middle of his presidential campaign, Buttigieg returned home after a police officer gunned down a black man in South Bend. An exchange between a black constituent and Buttigieg at a tense demonstration has dogged his campaign ever since.

“You’re running for president, and you want black people to vote for you?” the woman said. “That’s not going to happen.”

“Ma’am, I’m not asking for your vote,” Buttigieg responded.

Quote

During a 2011 public television broadcast while he was a candidate for mayor of South Bend, Indiana, Buttigieg said children "need to see evidence that education is going to work for them ... and there are a lot of kids, especially in the lower income, minority neighborhoods, who literally just haven't seen it work. There isn't somebody they know personally who testifies the value of education." 

"What I said in that comment before I became mayor does not reflect the totality of my understanding then, and certainly now, about the obstacles that students of color face in our system today," Buttigieg told CNN at a campaign stop in Denison, Iowa. "I believe I was speaking about the need for mentorship and the need for career pathways, but the problem is to the extent that that feels like it's validating a narrative that sometimes blames the victim for the consequences of systemic racism, I understand why he [Harriot] was upset and I understand the perspective and largely

Quote

Now, though, the Buttigieg’s rollout of the Douglass Plan has once again shown the painful whiteness, and tone-deafness of his wannabe woke campaign. Buttigieg touted the fact that, supposedly, 400 South Carolinians endorsed his plan, and an open letter was released that highlighted prominent black leaders among the 400. By implication at times, and explicitly at others, the campaign presented the list as if it contained 400 black supporters.

Turns out, many of the names listed as "endorsements" were neither black nor even Buttigieg supporters.

Investigate journalist Ryan Grim of The Intercept exposed this sham, highlighting that the Buttigieg campaign had told people they had to “opt-out” of endorsing the plan. That’s right, they basically said: Email us by the end of today and let us know if you don't want your name to be included. Suffice it to say this is not normally how endorsements are collected.

 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I very largely agree with Buddha's takes the past few pages, FWIW

careful you out if touch old white guy!  they might call you a republican!

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Just now, 313DetroitCity said:

Do tell what it has to do with....

well, I just did

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9 minutes ago, Buddha said:

ive heard that too but i dont know if i agree.

they tried that here in chicago.  our current mayor lori lightfoot is gay and her opponent in the run off (another black woman) was sending out leaflets to the black churches in town reminding them that she was gay.  it didnt work. lori won in a landslide.

but this is chicago and not the south.  it might be different down there for a gay white boy from indiana.

Black voters never rallied behind Harris or Booker either. Didn't realize they were also gay.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

careful you out if touch old white guy!  they might call you a republican!

But you are. Why not embrace it and own it?

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Just now, FloridaTigers said:

But you are. Why not embrace it and own it?

why do you think that?

my comments here are how i see the race playing out and what may or may not resonate with american voters.  i havent said anything about how i personally vote.

i hate donald trump.  i think he's a horrible person who should never have been elected and who should be impeached.  but that doesnt mean i think everyone else thinks that way.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I very largely agree with Buddha's takes the past few pages, FWIW

yeah, he's putting on a 2012 era Miguel Cabrera batting practice.  He's been raking.

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2 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Black voters never rallied behind Harris or Booker either. Didn't realize they were also gay.

ok.  your quoting me giving an example of black voters voting overwhelmingly for a gay candidate in which i call into question the thesis that black voters wont vote for someone who is gay.

i mean, ive heard that said and im not sure i believe it.  some.black voters are more socially conservative but i dont know if that will translate into not voting for buttigieg.  it might.

as for your apparent thesis that black voters didnt vote for him because of his actions as mayor of south bend, they werent voting for him even before that stuff came out so im not sure it had any effect.

amd corey booker is gay, lol.

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1 minute ago, ROMAD1 said:

yeah, he's putting on a 2012 era Miguel Cabrera batting practice.  He's been raking.

im about to turn into miggy 2019 cause im going to go eat breakfast and then disappear!

there's too much disingenuous crap that gets thrown around in here.  

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Just now, ROMAD1 said:

yeah, he's putting on a 2012 era Miguel Cabrera batting practice.  He's been raking.

So he's going to lose embarrassingly and get swept at the end of it all? ?

4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

why do you think that?

my comments here are how i see the race playing out and what may or may not resonate with american voters.  i havent said anything about how i personally vote.

i hate donald trump.  i think he's a horrible person who should never have been elected and who should be impeached.  but that doesnt mean i think everyone else thinks that way.

I was referring to your comments on Labour and current left-leaning candidates. There are many conservatives and Republicans who don't like Donald Trump. I just don't see how anti-imperialism is a bad thing?

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

im about to turn into miggy 2019 cause im going to go eat breakfast and then disappear!

there's too much disingenuous crap that gets thrown around in here.  

If I'd have said Miggy 2009, you'd have been off to happy hour.

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12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

1) i dont think the current national polls reflect what will happen in the general election and the electoral college.  i could see bernie winning michigan amd maybe minnesota, but losing iowa and pennsylvania and ohio amd wisconsin and texas and arizona and north carolina and virginia and losing the election.  florida too probably but that might be close.

2) i think bernie's foreign policy views see america as an imperialist power and he has aligned himself with those regimes who opposed american foreign policy in the past.  thats what i meant.  you disagree with that?

3) thats what politicians do.  republicans and democrats alike.  the question is how effective it will be.  i think much of the republican presidential campaign will be "yeah trump is an *** hole, but look at these crazy *** democrats who want to raise your taxes, give reparations to black people, take away your health insurance, take away your car, and make you stop eating hamburgers."

and, unfortunately, i think it will work.  there's nothing that scares middle america more than giving free **** to black people.

So, basically every poll that has come out that shows Sanders or Warren beating Trump is wrong because Buddha just knows better about what will happen.

Also, Sanders is anti-imperalist, which is a good thing. But being anti-imperalist is not being anti-American. And making such an assertion is complete Trumpian nonsense. 

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