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ROMAD1

Directions and Objectives For A Future Mainstream Party

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19 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

This is really all that needs to be said.

Your concision is what I admire about you Biggs!

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34 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Lots of residual affection of Arnold.

I find it easy to forget he did two terms as CA gov. If Reagan had lived long enough to go back to Hollywood and do more movies, would we forget he had been Pres?

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I distinctly recall Romney saying let Detroit go bankrupt. 

Speaking of chaos reality, we now have Never Trumpers who peddled conspiracy theories like Benghazi who now want Obama 2.0. 

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Do you reject my support or my vote?

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I distinctly recall Romney saying let Detroit go bankrupt. 

Speaking of chaos reality, we now have Never Trumpers who peddled conspiracy theories like Benghazi who now want Obama 2.0. 

 

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4 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Do you reject my support or my vote?

 

I'm not convinced Never Trumpers are going to go out and vote for Biden. I think when push comes to shove, they'll vote third party or not show up.

Do we really have your support? What happens January 21, 2021 if Biden is elected? Is it back to the Obama days of trying to make him a one term president? Are you going to start Burisma conspiracies again? 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not convinced Never Trumpers are going to go out and vote for Biden. I think when push comes to shove, they'll vote third party or not show up.

Do we really have your support? What happens January 21, 2021 if Biden is elected? Is it back to the Obama days of trying to make him a one term president? Are you going to start Burisma conspiracies again? 

I'll be happy for crappy normal vice disaster.

Biden has been better than crappy normal lately though.   Some men rise to the challenge. 

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I had missed that Marco Rubio is now pushing something he calls Common-Good-Capitalism. Sounds like there must be something in there he and Warren might agree on.

In any case, George Will has panned the concept - which is a good sign.

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this is a good article.

The Democratic Party is conservative. Obama is. Pelosi is. That clearly enrages the far left, and maybe they form their own party.

The fact that the GOP and Fox have been able to convince so many people the Dems are leftists has been a continual successful disinformation campaign.

NOW is the time to stay in the center, but MAGA is happy to move to full fascist.

Again, 60M will vote for that scumbag. Can we overcome? Maybe.

 

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I remember at the time of the nomination of Trump that the GOP became the party that they were always accused of being.

 

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6 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

this is a good article.

The Democratic Party is conservative. Obama is. Pelosi is. That clearly enrages the far left, and maybe they form their own party.

The fact that the GOP and Fox have been able to convince so many people the Dems are leftists has been a continual successful disinformation campaign.

NOW is the time to stay in the center, but MAGA is happy to move to full fascist.

Again, 60M will vote for that scumbag. Can we overcome? Maybe.

 

this is  a pretty good summary. There are lots of paradigms you can arrange the conservative/liberal spectrum on. One I like is that you can tell the real conservative party because it is the one least attached to any 'isms", which is to say that a fundamental tenet of any  truly conservative world view is practicality, and  attachment to over arching ideological systems is by its nature impractical and thus deeply  unconservative.

In the 1930's, it was the left that was the most ideologically attached  - socialism and communism were the intellectual rages of the early 20th century. Now that legacy is not completely dead yet - witness Bernie Sanders. However if you look at the parties to today, we see a GOP dominated by all kinds of ideologies that blind them to the practical needs of governing and society, which include;  allegiance to over idealized economic constructs like Von Mises, Mercantilism and other fundamental over-extensions of market theory beyond any reasonable reality of where they actually apply in practice; to legal concepts of 'natural law' that  have no practical underpinnings at all but are just an academic gloss to spin ratification of whatever passes as 'Christian' legal theory into secular law; and finally the importation of fundamentalist Christian biblical literalism that is not only rejected by most the population and thus deeply anti-democratic, but brings counterproductive medieval thinking to the problems of a modern complex world. So there is a critique of the GOP as deeply unconservative and this is without even talking about the GOP's descent into bigotry and racism.

There are times in history when when new ideological constructs are needed to move society forward, and when those occur society is served by a vigorous conservatism that challenges and tests every aspect of proposed change against its likely practical result. But that is not where we are today. The GOP is not a conservative party, it is an ideological party, and its ideologies today are old, tired, reactionary, anti-humanist and anti-democratic. They do not promise or represent any hope of social progress. Ergo, Wehner is correct, if you want to vote for practical improvement, the Dems are the only practical, and thus conservative, choice.

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On 3/20/2020 at 10:46 AM, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not convinced Never Trumpers are going to go out and vote for Biden. I think when push comes to shove, they'll vote third party or not show up.

I think you're dead wrong, but are the Never Trumpers a big enough percentage to matter is the real question.

On 3/20/2020 at 10:46 AM, Motown Bombers said:

Do we really have your support? What happens January 21, 2021 if Biden is elected? Is it back to the Obama days of trying to make him a one term president? Are you going to start Burisma conspiracies again? 

Absolutely i'll be hoping to get him out and for someone with true conservative fiscal values to come into the picture.  I will say I think I'm done voting for a party that is conservative both fiscally and has the current republican conservative social approach.  For years I felt the governments role was just the fiscal portion and the people would ensure we change as a society.  Tired of the social importance the right preaches about and focuses on.

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From JVL in today's newsletter

Quote

Let's just suppose, for a minute, that Joe Biden wins 400 votes in the Electoral College and Democrats take control of the Senate. Does anyone think that the main body of the Republican party—or even the top level of Republican elites—will go to the anti-Trump Republican hold-outs and say, "Turns out you were right. No hard feelings. Let's get back to conservative values and fix this thing!"

Because I do not.

In fact, I think it will rather be the opposite. The Republicans and conservatives who apologized and covered for Trump and helped make the mess will all get off scott free and the only recriminations will be against the people who kept warning that Trump was bad news.

Why? Because, to paraphrase Albus Dumbledore, people almost always forgive you for being wrong. They almost never forgive you for being right.

None of this especially bothers me. As I said, I was never part of the club to begin with. But it does go a long way to understanding what the dynamic of the Republican party and the conservative movement will be post-Trump.

And my view remains the same: Trump and Trumpism are likely to continue to define them both for the foreseeable future.

Which is to say: There will be no "post-Trump."

Trumpism is forever.

https://mailchi.mp/thebulwark/who-will-rebuild-the-gop?e=495bdc19e8

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I kinda agree with all that.  I'm going to fight for my Reagan/Bush/Buckley principles:  Free Trade, the Rule of Law and Collective Security.  Wherever I find those I will support them.

Unless, the man or woman who supported them was too weak to fight Trump.

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55 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

I kinda agree with all that.  I'm going to fight for my Reagan/Bush/Buckley principles:  Free Trade, the Rule of Law and Collective Security.  Wherever I find those I will support them.

Unless, the man or woman who supported them was too weak to fight Trump.

This is a good part of my political leanings.

Once the centrist Dems included these in their platform (edit: I think the Dems always had rule of law and collective security; centrist Dems added Globalism and Free Trade and a healthy Wall Street, and sometimes a Balanced Budget... so I'm going to count all of these as Republican adds to the Dems), it was an easy decision to make...

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50 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

I kinda agree with all that.  I'm going to fight for my Reagan/Bush/Buckley principles:  Free Trade, the Rule of Law and Collective Security.  Wherever I find those I will support them.

Unless, the man or woman who supported them was too weak to fight Trump.

Conversely...

I'm an atheist since I was 11 years old. (That was a long time ago...).

I'm not, and have NEVER BEEN, thrilled with Reagan's rise of the Moral Majority. Quite the opposite in fact.

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I've stated a couple times that the scales have fallen from my eyes on the fact that you cannot have Rule of Law without an approximation of Equal Justice under Law.  Whatever I thought about the unruly non-suburban types before, I know now that you cannot have A without B or at least be adjacent to it.  Equal Justiceoid.

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2 hours ago, ROMAD1 said:

...  you cannot have Rule of Law without an approximation of Equal Justice under Law...

This part I didn't have to worry about scales balancing as I've always held to this...

And this is coming from a household/ family in which EVERY ethnic joke was known. I believe I had a knee-jerk and opposite reaction to the family's racism well before leaving high school. After leaving west side Detroit and moving to the boonies at age 13, and going to an all-white high school. 

Inspired, ironically, by something my father said when I was about 9-ish or 10-ish about "being fair". 

Hmmm... "Being Fair" means Equal Justice under the Law. That's a pretty simple equation to me. So is Equal Opportunity for All (without prejudice).

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