Jump to content

Oblong

Red Kelly's #4 going to the rafters

Recommended Posts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Oblong said:

Naturally the discussion turns to Sergei and based on what Jimmy D says to the Athletic... it's not going to happen for a long time.

https://theathletic.com/585730/2018/10/12/loyalty-above-all-things-a-number-is-headed-to-the-rafters-in-detroit-while-sergei-fedorov-waits/

 

Petty, stupid and sad.   He's one of the best players in Wings history and they don't win those 97 or 98 Cups without him.   Best playoff performer the team ever had.    He scored a lot of points, but always neutralized the other teams' best players.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jimmy D is just saying what the family won’t. He spurned the Ilitch family twice and they do not forget that.  He specifically pointed out the things they had to do financially to pay that $24 million up front.  Then to leave again for less money the first chance he got.... after what they did to get him here?  I don’t see it happening as long as an Ilitch owns the team. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I think Jimmy D is just saying what the family won’t. He spurned the Ilitch family twice and they do not forget that.  He specifically pointed out the things they had to do financially to pay that $24 million up front.  Then to leave again for less money the first chance he got.... after what they did to get him here?  I don’t see it happening as long as an Ilitch owns the team. 

its an odd situation. There isn't much of anything in his public bio that indicates that Sergei went around making a lot of enemies of people so the bad blood seems out of place. He guess he was a little prickly about his independence, but then again, the Ilitch clan seems to have these invisible lines that people cross at their peril (see Dombrowski, David), so who knows which end the fault - if you even want to call it that, was on. 

The situation was maybe the same one we had with Scherzer and JV. Maybe a great player, no matter what a team does, and even if he loves the other guy personally, gets tired of not being #1 with the fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care what went down between Sergei and the the Ilitches, his number needs to be retired, because he's ******* earned it. Not retiring his number is a ridiculously bad look for the Ilitches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, holygoat said:

I don't care what went down between Sergei and the the Ilitches, his number needs to be retired, because he's ******* earned it. Not retiring his number is a ridiculously bad look for the Ilitches.

No doubt. The Ilitch view of professional athletes has been a little bit 18th century plantation and if Chris inherited that as family legacy he needs to jettison it.  Athletes bust their butts their entire lives to attain their proficiency, they probably don't feel they owe sports owners anything for their place in the league - even after an owner does something the owner feels should create some special kind of loyalty. To the player, that owner is still only doing those things to win for themselves. Sergei knows Ilitch didn't spend all that money on him for any other reason than that he was a good enough hockey player to make it worth it to the Wings. So athletes rightly tend to see the relationship as strictly commercial - which it is. If the Ilitches expect more, they are wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, holygoat said:

I don't care what went down between Sergei and the the Ilitches, his number needs to be retired, because he's ******* earned it. Not retiring his number is a ridiculously bad look for the Ilitches.

Waiting until Sparky died was kind of petty too.     Sparky wasn't happy with the family when they threw Dan Ewald under the bus when everyone EVERYONE knew Mrs. Illitch was part of the Tiger ownership.    Are they waiting for Feds to die too?   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sergei had the right to leave and the Ilitches have the right not to retire his number.  It's one of the perks of being a billionaire team owner.  They can retire Danny Cleary's number if they want. What difference does it really make? I wouldn't be upset if they retired it, and wouldn't be upset if they didn't.  Keith Gave's book sheds a bit of light on the situation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

look, mike illitch retire willie ******* horton's number.  he can obviously do whatever he wants with his teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Sergei had the right to leave and the Ilitches have the right not to retire his number.  It's one of the perks of being a billionaire team owner.  They can retire Danny Cleary's number if they want.

this is completely  true in terms of ownerships prerogatives, but it is also true that they open themselves to the charge of being dishonest people. IF there was a big sign in the rafters that said these are the jerseys of  "Mike's Favorites" then absolutely, put anybody up there that Mike and/or Marion thought was a great guy. But if you are going to bill the jerseys in the rafters as the history of your team's all time great players and then leave off arguably most dominant two way player to ever put on your team's jersey, you simply expose yourselves as people whose connection to simple truth is less than secure. Of course a lot of people don't care about that anymore - seems to be the prevailing zeitgeist in fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do fans feel like the team is held in public trust by the owner?

I mean, I get it is a bad look to retire Jason Wooley's number while not retiring Lidstrom's in the hypothetical, but as long as they aren't over the top with it, I don't think the fan base on the whole is that torn over Fedorov not being retired.

And I write that as a huge fan of Sergei's and his number should absolutely be retired.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the argument that Sergei leaving was more than a stab at the Ilitch's but a stab against the Wings and the organization itself.   He didn't just leave for more money or because he wanted to play for a contender and the Wings weren't contending.  Both times he left or tried to leave the Wings they were at the peak.   The Wings made it clear they would pay him but he wanted to go.  When he was in his contract stalemate after 97 and then signed that sheet, that hurt the team as much as his goal scoring and defensive play helped them.  Maybe they held back on a later move because of funding?  You never know.  If he stayed maybe they win in 06 or 07?   It's not just a personal thing on their part.  I appreciate the reluctance to retire jerseys.  

It's different than when GIbson and Morris left the TIgers.  Those were specific labor issues regarding collusion.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I can see the argument that Sergei leaving was more than a stab at the Ilitch's but a stab against the Wings and the organization itself.   He didn't just leave for more money or because he wanted to play for a contender and the Wings weren't contending.  Both times he left or tried to leave the Wings they were at the peak.   The Wings made it clear they would pay him but he wanted to go.  When he was in his contract stalemate after 97 and then signed that sheet, that hurt the team as much as his goal scoring and defensive play helped them.  Maybe they held back on a later move because of funding?  You never know.  If he stayed maybe they win in 06 or 07?   It's not just a personal thing on their part.  I appreciate the reluctance to retire jerseys.  

It's different than when GIbson and Morris left the TIgers.  Those were specific labor issues regarding collusion.  

But why is it a stab in the back that Sergei didn't want to play here anymore? He's allowed to have a life of his own and have priorities in that life without being accused of 'stabbing' anyone. If he wouldn't play or dogged it on the ice (well some thought there was some of that) or his teammates wanted him out that would be another thing, but you can still have a great legacy in one place even if you wanted the right to go somewhere else. That is more or less what I mean about ownership - or even the fans - having a plantation mentality. Nobody 'owns' a player's life. 

Now like I said, the Wings can put anyone's jersey in the building they want, but don't tell me it means much if they are playing personal favorites - it demeans all the others in a way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He got paid the money he was owed.   Jersey retirements could be about more than just production while in the uniform, that's the standard the Wings organization appears to have.  My point is I don't see that as necessarily petty.  He didn't want to be here so they don't feel the need to enshrine him among the all time greats.   Perhaps they see that willingness and desire to leave, twice, as something disrespectful to the very logo and jersey in which he'd be permanently linked to and that's where they draw the line.   

If he didn't feel that way about the winged wheel then the winged wheel doesn't have to feel the same way about him.

I don't see jersey retirement as something that you just build towards and once you reach a certain point then it's automatic.  There's other variables at play.

That said I don't care if they retire it either.  I'm just arguing their point and don't see it as a petty thing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of the Illitches, here's a recent article about District Detroit. I don't live in the Michigan area and have been to the new arena only once since it opened, so people on the ground will have a better idea as to how fair the article is being. FWIW, the Guardian is a major UK-based, left-of-centre publication.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/08/detroit-the-district-redevelopment-ilitch-companies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan. I haven't been in that specific area on the Cass side since May when I was on a group run.  I'm going tonight to see Foo Fighters.

From Woodward it's nice and shiny and corporate.  From behind it on Cass, the giant parking structure blocks everything. Across 75 to the area behind the Fox and Fillmore is a giant parking lot divided up into mini lots.  For LCA unless I get a parking pass in the structure from my suite owning friend, with it's own parking spot, I still park where I do for Tiger games, well away from the crazy stuff.

I always go to Harry's.  They're trying to swallow him up.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Speaking of the Illitches, here's a recent article about District Detroit. I don't live in the Michigan area and have been to the new arena only once since it opened, so people on the ground will have a better idea as to how fair the article is being. FWIW, the Guardian is a major UK-based, left-of-centre publication.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/08/detroit-the-district-redevelopment-ilitch-companies

I question the premise from the line perspective. This article is about 5 yrs too early to take the premise seriously. The Arena has barely been open for a yr. The kind of development effect the project may have is going to be on  much longer time frame than today. It reminds me of the huge critique in MN in the first years after the light rail line was put in: Nobody rides it, it doesn't go anywhere, it isn't paying off" etc, etc. Ten years later everyone was lining up to get the next one built to their part of town. Urban redevelopment is a slow process.

What would be bad is if the family is over extended and we end up with a Maroun like kind of problem where they are talking the game but don't have or won't spend the money to do execute the plans. Of course that would also mean we should be seeing the Tigers sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      96,125
    • Total Posts
      2,823,355
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×