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six-hopper

Good thing we got rid of Brad Ausmus and his 64-98 record and replaced him with the experienced Ron Illadvisedhire, who has led the Tigers to . . .

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Leyland had to be burned out just from BP options DD was leaving him with.

What options?

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21 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

Perhaps true. 

But similarly ..I think some people over-estimate the amount of positive Ausmus himself brought to the team.

 

 

Really?  From what I can see, everybody hated him.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

Really?  From what I can see, everybody hated him.  

yeah.... I think I might have been the most positive guy here supporting him and I wasn't really supporting him as much as defending him against what I thought was some crazy piling on.... 

 

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So the assumption here is that the Tigers should have kept Brad?  Maybe Brad did not have a WS contender in that last season, but the proven MLB talent he did have is a ton more than what Gardy dealt with this year.

I have been on record many times saying I do not think the manager of an mlb club has much say in the over all record with a plus minus of MAYBE 5 games with a really good one on one side and a really bad one on the other.  If Brad was the skip of this team he would have won about the same number of games as Gardy...if Gardy was the manager of the 2017 would we have been so far out that we had to sell a bunch of pieces?  Probably....that team was imploding and getting old.

That being said I am more a fan of Gardy than Brad.

Some people (myself included) thought the Brad hire was the right hire at the wrong time.  I think at some point Brad could have been the skip...handing a rookie manager that team was a poor decision.  Brad would have been the perfect fit for this years team...if he had not already had the history.  It was a hire 4 years too early IMO.

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23 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

So the assumption here is that the Tigers should have kept Brad?  Maybe Brad did not have a WS contender in that last season, but the proven MLB talent he did have is a ton more than what Gardy dealt with this year.

I have been on record many times saying I do not think the manager of an mlb club has much say in the over all record with a plus minus of MAYBE 5 games with a really good one on one side and a really bad one on the other.  If Brad was the skip of this team he would have won about the same number of games as Gardy...if Gardy was the manager of the 2017 would we have been so far out that we had to sell a bunch of pieces?  Probably....that team was imploding and getting old.

That being said I am more a fan of Gardy than Brad.

Some people (myself included) thought the Brad hire was the right hire at the wrong time.  I think at some point Brad could have been the skip...handing a rookie manager that team was a poor decision.  Brad would have been the perfect fit for this years team...if he had not already had the history.  It was a hire 4 years too early IMO.

I think the assumption here is that Gardenhire is no better at managing than Ausmus.  

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, but I tend to agree with you.  Hiring Gardenhire while this team was still contending would have been a better move.  Gardenhire is known with working with veterans better than rookies and Ausmus probably never gained the respect from the veteran players due to inexperience.  What should have happened was hire Ausmus to manage the AA or AAA team for a few years, gain experience and the respect of the players.  Then in 2018, bring him up along with all the other rookie players.  Ausmus would have learned how to work with these players as well as learned how to be a manager in general.  While at the same time, the Tigers could have had a veteran manager while the team was still in contention.

They did things backwards.  Gardenhire is not a good fit for the 2018 team anymore than Ausmus was not fit for the 2014 team.  However, flip them around and they are probably the perfect fit for the other team.  Oh well.  

The problem was the timing.  Leyland retired after the 2013 season but the Twins didn't fire Gardenhire until after the 2014 season. The Tigers should have convinced Leyland to stick around for 1 more year or the Twins should have fired Gardenhire 1 year earlier.  

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

So the assumption here is that the Tigers should have kept Brad?  Maybe Brad did not have a WS contender in that last season, but the proven MLB talent he did have is a ton more than what Gardy dealt with this year.

I have been on record many times saying I do not think the manager of an mlb club has much say in the over all record with a plus minus of MAYBE 5 games with a really good one on one side and a really bad one on the other.  If Brad was the skip of this team he would have won about the same number of games as Gardy...if Gardy was the manager of the 2017 would we have been so far out that we had to sell a bunch of pieces?  Probably....that team was imploding and getting old.

That being said I am more a fan of Gardy than Brad.

Some people (myself included) thought the Brad hire was the right hire at the wrong time.  I think at some point Brad could have been the skip...handing a rookie manager that team was a poor decision.  Brad would have been the perfect fit for this years team...if he had not already had the history.  It was a hire 4 years too early IMO.

Brad Awesomeus and Ron Illadvisedhire were not the only options.

RI is a better interview.  I'm far from convinced that he is a better manager.

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59 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

The problem was the timing.  Leyland retired after the 2013 season but the Twins didn't fire Gardenhire until after the 2014 season. The Tigers should have convinced Leyland to stick around for 1 more year or the Twins should have fired Gardenhire 1 year earlier.  

Or Leyland could have retired a year sooner when Francona was still available.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Or Leyland could have retired a year sooner when Francona was still available.

I was about to type this.

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Considering we weren't planning on contending for a few years I felt it was a good time to either keep Ausmus and see if he kept improving (atleast I thought he was getting better) or hire another young manager and allow him the 3-4 years when we weren't contending to get his feet wet so he could be ready when we start to be good again.  This way if you have another 10 year run like we had before we would have a young enough manager that could be apart of the whole thing.

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I'm pretty amazed that this team won 64 games.  This was a lesser team than the 2003 team.

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18 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I would take the 2003 lineup.

They were more fun to watch.  

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The 03 TIgers scored 591 runs in a league that averaged 788 runs scored.

The 18 Tigers scored 630 runs in a league that averaged 733 runs scored.

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55 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The 03 TIgers scored 591 runs in a league that averaged 788 runs scored.

The 18 Tigers scored 630 runs in a league that averaged 733 runs scored.

I hate our lineup, minus a couple.

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1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

I hate our lineup, minus a couple.

We all do. 

Who did you like in the 2003 lineup? Sir Gene?

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

We all do. 

Who did you like in the 2003 lineup? Sir Gene?

Higgy, Dmitri, Pena

And sir belt a lot, Monroe...

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This is rock bottom.....we're praying for another 2003?  Thanks Chris, Al and Brad.

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9 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

Higgy, Dmitri, Pena

And sir belt a lot, Monroe...

Dmitri had a very good season in '03.  The only player on that team to have a very good season.

Higginson posted a 0.689 OPS.  He was not so different than Victor.

Pena OPSed 0.773, Monroe 0.736, no great shakes.

Niko Goodrum had a 0.747 OPS, Hicks 0.715, Candelario 0.710, Iglesias 0.699, and it was a worse offensive environment in 2018.

The two teams had nearly identical batting averages, OBP and SLG.  The 03 team hit a few more HR.

 

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24 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

This is rock bottom.....we're praying for another 2003?  Thanks Chris, Al and Brad.

Cheer up.  We still have the down slope of Cabrera's career to follow for the next 5 seasons.

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9 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

And sir belt a lot, Monroe...

I see what you did there.

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32 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

This is rock bottom.....we're praying for another 2003?  Thanks Chris, Al and Brad.

Nobody is praying for 2003.

Cruzer made a claim the this team was a lesser team than the 2003 team, which is demonstratively false, and followed it up by claiming he would take the 03 lineup despite the fact the 03 team scored 200 fewer runs than league average and the 18 team scored 100 fewer runs than league average.

The funny thing is the 18 team has better baserunning / defense / team speed / general athleticism.  I would have thought Cruzer would be all over that.

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