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Tenacious D

2018-19 Off-season Thread

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41 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Nobody is interested in politics here.

Do you think Granderson will run for office some day?  

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

Yes, its night and day skill wise.... Not to mention the guys back in the eighties were stick figures conpared with guys today in terms of muscular development + athleticism.  

Well, muscular development is to get stronger for hitting and hitting is most of the game for most players, but that said in other phases it can be a mixed blessing or even a detriment. If you look at the individual sport most in need of reflex action, agility and quickness like a baseball fielder I would say it would be tennis, and you don't see highly ripped tennis players. It certainly doesn't help throwing which demands elasticity more than brute strength, and why OF throwing is the one thing that is not as good in general as it once was, though it is making a bit of a comeback - there certainly still are great arms like Puig around and probably more than 15 yrs ago.

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15 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Players today don't know how to bunt or hit the cut-off man.  

And......many fans would be upset if they did bunt and most fans couldn't tell if they hit the cutoff man or not.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Well, muscular development is to get stronger for hitting and hitting is most of the game for most players, but that said in other phases it can be a mixed blessing or even a detriment. If you look at the individual sport most in need of reflex action, agility and quickness like a baseball fielder I would say it would be tennis, and you don't see highly ripped tennis players. It certainly doesn't help throwing which demands elasticity more than brute strength, and why OF throwing is the one thing that is not as good in general as it once was, though it is making a bit of a comeback - there certainly still are great arms like Puig around and probably more than 15 yrs ago.

Dont disagree that muscle + agility is required, thats why I paired muscle + athleticism.   I imagine that most if not all players at the professional ranks are tailoring their weight training towards maximizing and complimenting skill development...though throwing arms may not be a priority for a lot of guys.

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20 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

throwing arms may not be a priority for a lot of guys.

this. Great throws are fun to see, but I don't think they have been that highly valued for contributing to winning and that may be the correct analysis. With better defensive metrics - like how many extra bases an OF gives up, I suppose that may change some - but the final outcome is the result of a lot more than just the strength of the throw itself -  being/getting in position to throw when  a catch is made, time to get to ground ball, aggressiveness charging ground balls, accuracy, and time to get the throw off. The better arm is just one way for an OF to improve on his performance at holding/putting out runners.

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It’s fascinating how a team can be built with a certain aggregate in mind, while finding specific players that will fit in to that overall aggregate.  In the overall aggregate you know if you can sustain certain deficits in player or not   Complete players, that may have been overlooked in the past now get recognition because their multiple abilities are respected.  Any team that doesn’t use these tools that are available to everyone is stupid. 

 

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I don't know as that there are fewer throwing arms from the OF.

I suspect teams run on the OF less than was the case because teams take fewer risks on the bases, so we see fewer throws.

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On 1/24/2019 at 7:02 PM, Oblong said:

My only skepticism is whoever is on the committee will overreact to the Baines fallout and get conservative.  But I don’t see anyone else from that era above Whitaker.  If not him then don’t bother having it anymore.  I guess they could look at guys like Guidry and Dale Murphy and Mattingly.  My theory is Lou wasn’t on the ballot last time because they were dealing with BBWAA leftovers and didn’t want to have too many Tigers.  Had to address Trammell and Morris first. 

honestly, them electing a nothingburger like baines makes it just as likely that any pretty good player can get in.

whoever is friends or played for or played with someone on the committee is just as likely to get in as whitaker, a guy who kept to himself and didnt seem to have a lot of baseball friends or much of a reputation.

(then again, neither did baines...but he had jerry reinsdorf and tony larussa to lobby for him.  who lobbies for whitaker?)

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18 minutes ago, Buddha said:

(then again, neither did baines...but he had jerry reinsdorf and tony larussa to lobby for him.  who lobbies for whitaker?)

Lee.

 

When he speaks people listen.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

honestly, them electing a nothingburger like baines makes it just as likely that any pretty good player can get in.

whoever is friends or played for or played with someone on the committee is just as likely to get in as whitaker, a guy who kept to himself and didnt seem to have a lot of baseball friends or much of a reputation.

(then again, neither did baines...but he had jerry reinsdorf and tony larussa to lobby for him.  who lobbies for whitaker?)

Seemed like all HOF weekend every time Tram got mentioned you had someone saying Lou should also be in.  I willl be very shocked if he’s not in. I know it’s a different group of voters but the Baines election surprised me.  I don’t rememver anyone lobbying for him in BBWAA voting. 

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Did Tram mention Lou his speech? I know he did during interviews that weekend.

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6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Did Tram mention Lou his speech? I know he did during interviews that weekend.

Yes he did.  Around 8:15 mark  

 

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2 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

Lee.

 

When he speaks people listen.

One or two people listen but nobody hears.   

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

honestly, them electing a nothingburger like baines makes it just as likely that any pretty good player can get in.

whoever is friends or played for or played with someone on the committee is just as likely to get in as whitaker, a guy who kept to himself and didnt seem to have a lot of baseball friends or much of a reputation.

(then again, neither did baines...but he had jerry reinsdorf and tony larussa to lobby for him.  who lobbies for whitaker?)

The only ones who lobby for Whitaker are sabers and while they carry a little more weight in various awards voting lately, I don't think think they will have much influence on the Veterans Committee or whatever they call it now.  

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Definitely worth a quote to a journalist, and then worth a tweet from the journalist, and then worth a post of the tweet on this website.

Now we know. 

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3 hours ago, Oblong said:

Seemed like all HOF weekend every time Tram got mentioned you had someone saying Lou should also be in.  I willl be very shocked if he’s not in. I know it’s a different group of voters but the Baines election surprised me.  I don’t rememver anyone lobbying for him in BBWAA voting. 

i mean someone who is on the committee itself.  the only reason baines got in was because larussa and reinsdorf were in the room voting dor baines and getting other idiots to vote for him too.

i dont know if anyone on the committee will carry water for whitaker like that.

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5 hours ago, Shelton said:

Definitely worth a quote to a journalist, and then worth a tweet from the journalist, and then worth a post of the tweet on this website.

Now we know. 

yeah, I know it's obvious.  It was interesting to me to see a player pointing it out.  

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23 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Well, muscular development is to get stronger for hitting and hitting is most of the game for most players, but that said in other phases it can be a mixed blessing or even a detriment. If you look at the individual sport most in need of reflex action, agility and quickness like a baseball fielder I would say it would be tennis, and you don't see highly ripped tennis players. It certainly doesn't help throwing which demands elasticity more than brute strength, and why OF throwing is the one thing that is not as good in general as it once was, though it is making a bit of a comeback - there certainly still are great arms like Puig around and probably more than 15 yrs ago.

I respectfully disagree re: tennis.  Look at Nadal's physique.  the Williams sisters also relied on strength training.

On the other hand, Deuce doesn't waste his time in the weightroom.

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1 minute ago, diaspora04 said:

I respectfully disagree re: tennis.  Look at Nadal's physique.  the Williams sisters also relied on strength training.

On the other hand, Deuce doesn't waste his time in the weightroom.

He had a free membership to every gym in Toledo. He didn't necessarily go there to lift though.  

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35 minutes ago, diaspora04 said:

I respectfully disagree re: tennis.  Look at Nadal's physique.  the Williams sisters also relied on strength training.

On the other hand, Deuce doesn't waste his time in the weightroom.

Nadal is a good counter example, but I think he is almost an outlier for a tennis player - certainly compared to a Federer or Samprass/Conners/McEnroe etc.  Serena is a genetic one-of . No-one else in women's tennis looks very like her so I don't think you can generalize much from her case.

This kind of reminds me of a story about when post retirement Barry Bonds had taken up with competitive cyclists. Bonds was a fast, powerful man yet his energy output per pound of body mass was purely minor league compared to the people he was trying to ride with and he talked in one story about being humbled by how easily they smoked him. Almost every activity selects for something unique in physiology.

Baseball - like football, doesn't drive all players to the same body type since hitting and fielding are such different activities. I think before fielding metrics started having influence, no-one cared much if a guy built himself into Marcus Thames/Frank Thomas at the expense of his fielding. Probably getting less true all the time now though.

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Tigers seem to have a surplus of young starters. I am slightly surprised we haven’t seen a couple packages together to either acquire a positional player or better prospect. 

Some of these guys will have to transition to the bullpen just due to lack of space or play at a lower level than desired.

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