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Jets and Lions Gameday thread

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We all know (those of use alive at the time) that the 1991 season began with a debacle on the road in Washington.   Maybe one game doesn't show what a season will be.  

If the Patricia era is going to be a dumpster fire we might find out in their second game more so than their first.  Although the dumpster was definitely on fire on Monday. 

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7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The Lions haven't won in San Francisco since 1975.   

And remember for the entire 70s the 49ers were really bad, a large stretch of the 2000s as well. 

What if SF posts a similar score as the Jets.   

Then they get New England on national TV, go to Dallas and then host the Packers.

 

If they start 0-5 and get beat down each week, will Patricia survive?  

 

 

theyve lost 12 straight to the niners in san fran.

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11 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

I never heard Arizona declaring a rebuild.  Oakland has.  Not everyone has resources to sign Mack.  Oakland did a good deal for themselves to get two first rounders for him.  Lions might need a tear down after this mess, but they don't have the assets to trade/nor salary cap space/nor super young talent to rely on.  They were supposed to be ready built.

Stafford is 30 years old, they can't just tear it down.  Tearing it down would have to include dealing Stafford which has zero chance of happening anytime in the near future. 

This team is supposed to be built to win now if you look at the offense especially with lots of vets on that side of the ball. The problem is that Quinn did virtually nothing to address weaknesses to put this team in "win now" mode and just assumed that a chance of coaches is all the team needed. 

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9 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The Lions haven't won in San Francisco since 1975.   

And remember for the entire 70s the 49ers were really bad, a large stretch of the 2000s as well. 

What if SF posts a similar score as the Jets.   

Then they get New England on national TV, go to Dallas and then host the Packers.

 

If they start 0-5 and get beat down each week, will Patricia survive?  

 

 

Patricia isn't going anywhere soon. The Lions stick with coaches...and really, they would have a tough time getting a good coach to come to an organization that would be willing to fire a guy after a year or two. Outside him doing something illegal or highly immoral, Patricia is likely here for 3 seasons.

After watching Khalil Mack play in week one, I was second guessing the Lions passing on a chance to get him.  Now that I've seen how bad we are (Mack would not have changed week one's results), the draft picks we would have had to give up to acquire him may be top 5 picks. So I'm glad we didn't, but boy would I LOVE to have him on the defensive side of the ball in Detroit. Too bad we have WAY too many holes fix than our pass rush.

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1 hour ago, belcherboy said:

Patricia isn't going anywhere soon. The Lions stick with coaches...and really, they would have a tough time getting a good coach to come to an organization that would be willing to fire a guy after a year or two. Outside him doing something illegal or highly immoral, Patricia is likely here for 3 seasons.

After watching Khalil Mack play in week one, I was second guessing the Lions passing on a chance to get him.  Now that I've seen how bad we are (Mack would not have changed week one's results), the draft picks we would have had to give up to acquire him may be top 5 picks. So I'm glad we didn't, but boy would I LOVE to have him on the defensive side of the ball in Detroit. Too bad we have WAY too many holes fix than our pass rush.

the lions defense was ok when ansah was in the game.  they got decent pressure and had 2 sacks (and a pick 6). once ansah went out they couldnt stop them.  mack and ansah would be one of the best pass rushing duos in the league and would change the whole defense.

but the lions wouldnt have the salary cap space to sign mack.  so there was really no point in trading for him if you werent going to resign him like the bears did.  but if he were here, the lions defense would be much better.

that said, the lions dont want star players, they want guys who are versatile and can do a job.  they think they can scheme their way to good defense.  paying a guy like mack the money he got isnt something i think they would do.  we'll see if they can do win through scheme.  the early results arent so hot.

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I don't think it's a fact the Lions don't want star players.You just said they didn't have cap space to sign Mack so there's that. I also believe they wouldn't have franchised Ansah if they just wanted cheap versatile players, or sign Slay to a big extension and Glover Quinn. They also have used a lot of draft capital on defense. They spent a 2nd rounder on Robinson, 1st on Davis, and a 2nd rounder on Tabor. They also invested heavily in the offensive line which is never a bad strategy. I really don't have an issue with the approach. The players they have selected have just not panned out yet. 

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5 hours ago, Buddha said:

the lions defense was ok when ansah was in the game.  they got decent pressure and had 2 sacks (and a pick 6). once ansah went out they couldnt stop them.  mack and ansah would be one of the best pass rushing duos in the league and would change the whole defense.

but the lions wouldnt have the salary cap space to sign mack.  so there was really no point in trading for him if you werent going to resign him like the bears did.  but if he were here, the lions defense would be much better.

that said, the lions dont want star players, they want guys who are versatile and can do a job.  they think they can scheme their way to good defense.  paying a guy like mack the money he got isnt something i think they would do.  we'll see if they can do win through scheme.  the early results arent so hot.

Mack is expensive, but I heard a commentator talk about how he is 11% of the salary cap.  They also said he is among the most durable players of the past few seasons (determined by games/series missed). It was a no brainer decision by Chicago as this guy looks like he is firmly in his prime, and his durability so far as an NFL players indicates that he isn't likely to miss much playing time. Also, the Salary Cap liability likely changes in the next set of negotiations (although he can hold out).

Still, I agree with you on the Lions.

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't think it's a fact the Lions don't want star players.You just said they didn't have cap space to sign Mack so there's that. I also believe they wouldn't have franchised Ansah if they just wanted cheap versatile players, or sign Slay to a big extension and Glover Quinn. They also have used a lot of draft capital on defense. They spent a 2nd rounder on Robinson, 1st on Davis, and a 2nd rounder on Tabor. They also invested heavily in the offensive line which is never a bad strategy. I really don't have an issue with the approach. The players they have selected have just not panned out yet. 

quin was mayhew, right?

ansah, when healthy, is a versatile player and in order to keep him they likely had to do the franchise or pay way over value for a long term deal.  mack may be the type of versatile player theyre looking for too, i dont really know.

what i do know is that they spent their money this year on middling to bad free agents and eschewed any attempt (as far as we know) tonsign any of the more hyped players on the market.

what they have spent money on are homegrown players and offensive lineman (and marvin jones).

the road to the nfl championship isnt usually built on free agents (other than reggie white), so im not that upset at quinn for not splashing a ton of cash.  otoh, i do think he deserves criticism for bringing in a **** load of junk this year and passing it off as depth.  

but the REAL problem with the lions isnt quinn's lack of free agent acumen, but rather his poor drafting.  this team is living off the last remnants of mayhew's hits.  quinn's inability to bring in quality free agents (jones and maybe wagner notwithstanding, i dont consider tj lang to really be a success considering how bad the line played last year) only exacerbates that talent gap.

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it would be nice to see if quinn draft pick kerryon johnson can live up to his college hype, but the coaching staff instead stubbornly stuck to a rotation of backs, with kerryon being #3 in the rotation.  which led to a scenario where he got the least amount of snaps and to absurd situations where riddick was running power plays on 3rd and 1 because it was "his turn" in the rotation.

you spend that kind of draft capital on johnson, you should really play him.

but thats another criticism for another part of this godforsaken organization.

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ansah's mri on his shoulder showed no injury.

meaning he'll be back for a few series against san francisco before getting hurt again.

  • Haha 2

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

ansah's mri on his shoulder showed no injury.

meaning he'll be back for a few series against san francisco before getting hurt again.

Remember when Stafford first came into the league and people said he was a China doll? Ziggy really is a China doll and is hurt constantly.

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

... im not that upset at quinn for not splashing a ton of cash.  otoh, i do think he deserves criticism for bringing in a **** load of junk this year and passing it off as depth.  

I think this shows Quinn’s arrogance, that he and his crony - both in their roles for the first time - have such a great system that they can win even with mediocre players. 

What he doesn’t realize is that, unlike Belichick, he is a mediocre GM (at best) and Patricia is a mediocre coach (at best). 

He also forgets that it took Belichick a long time to get to the stage where he could appear to treat defensive players as interchangeable parts. Before Brady was the GOAT, that defense rode great players like McGinest, Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, Vrabel.

Quinn and Patricia are too arrogant to admit this. 

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I guess I don't see where Quin doesn't think he needs good players narrative comes from.  Didn't he sign the best available WR a couple offseasons ago?  Then sign two of the best offensive linemen available the offseason after that?   He also has yet to trade out of the first round, and has actually traded up multiple times.  Suggesting that he is more interesting in quality than quantity.    Yeah he went out and signed a bunch of mediocre players this offseason but maybe he just didn't think any of the higher priced players were worth the money?  Is every team that passed on them going to be accused of not wanting good players?    

With that said, his drafting has sucked and most of his signings haven't panned out so I'm not singing his praises or anything, just saying that I don't buy into this whole line of thinking that he thinks he can win with sub par players.   

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I'm also trying to figure out who exactly he was suppose to sign and defense and who he passed up. Ansah was the best pass rusher available. Suh wasn't coming back. I suppose Sheldon Richardson. Richard Sherman is a question mark. I'm sure Patricia also knows why Malcolm Butler was benched and they decided to pass. They didn't have the cap space for Mack and would have had to give up a lot of picks. 

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of all the free agents the lions signed this offseason, do you think any of them are any good?  kennard maybe?  maybe i guess.

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These are fair comments. Besides Mack (who they may have made a run at) most of the pass rushing help was middling at best. 

But Quinn’s 2016 draft is starting to look like a disaster. His 2017 draft could turn south real fast if Davis can’t play passing downs and Tabor can’t play at all. And let’s see if they ever give Kerryon Johnson the ball. 

He has had three drafts. He has done very little in three years to fix the pass rush. In his defense he has tried to fix the OL. So far, he has been an abject failure on that project. I hope things turn around.

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4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm also trying to figure out who exactly he was suppose to sign and defense and who he passed up. Ansah was the best pass rusher available. Suh wasn't coming back. I suppose Sheldon Richardson. Richard Sherman is a question mark. I'm sure Patricia also knows why Malcolm Butler was benched and they decided to pass. They didn't have the cap space for Mack and would have had to give up a lot of picks. 

butler was too expensive.  suh would have been fine and you font know he wasnt coming back.  sheldon richardson would have been perfect.  jimmy graham?

i dont think there were no good free agents on the market, there were plenty.  we went dumpster diving for guys who arent any better than practice squad filler.

but as randy points out (and i talked about before), the more pressing issue seems to be his drafts and the lack of development of a new core of young players.  theyre still young so there is still time, but boy do davis, robinson, tabor, et al look really bad.

and let us never forget that we drafted a ******* long snapper.

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12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

butler was too expensive.  suh would have been fine and you font know he wasnt coming back.  sheldon richardson would have been perfect.  jimmy graham?

i dont think there were no good free agents on the market, there were plenty.  we went dumpster diving for guys who arent any better than practice squad filler.

but as randy points out (and i talked about before), the more pressing issue seems to be his drafts and the lack of development of a new core of young players.  theyre still young so there is still time, but boy do davis, robinson, tabor, et al look really bad.

and let us never forget that we drafted a ******* long snapper.

I was focusing mostly on defense. They did franchise Ansah who was the top pass rusher available. If they were dumpster diving, they could have let him walk. Hankins didn't sign until the first game of the regular season. There has to be a reason why. Outside of Richardson, don't see much talent defensively that could have been signed. He did sign Jones, Wagner and Lang. The issue has been the draft. 

A lot of people like to ***** about the long snapper, but the worst pick was Brad Kaaya. Stafford obviously is entrenched as the starter and you just drafted Rudock the prior year to be the backup QB. Landis at least had a shot to make the team and contribute. 

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lang out for the niners game.  now we get to see all that great depth we accumulated over the offseason.

ansah and blount questionable.

hopefully now they'll actually play johnson for most of the game.

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I'm pretty sure Lang has been on the injury report every game since he's been here, or so it seems atleast.

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On 9/13/2018 at 1:41 PM, Motown Bombers said:

I'm also trying to figure out who exactly he was suppose to sign and defense and who he passed up. Ansah was the best pass rusher available. Suh wasn't coming back. I suppose Sheldon Richardson. Richard Sherman is a question mark. I'm sure Patricia also knows why Malcolm Butler was benched and they decided to pass. They didn't have the cap space for Mack and would have had to give up a lot of picks. 

Now you can't expect the Lions to be in on everyone, but signing one or two of the names listed below would have been nice. I was particularly high on them going after Dontari Poe and Zach Brown.

DE: Vinny Curry,  Muhammad Wilkerson, Julius Peppers

DT: Sheldon Richardson, Dontari Poe, Jonathan Hankins, DaQuon Jones

OLB: Zach Brown, Avery Williamson, Preston Brown

MLB: Anthony Hitchens

CB: Kyle Fuller (although not at that price), Trumaine Johnson,  Prince Amukamara

 

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