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Motor City Sonics

Let the Dan Gilbert/Tigers speculation begin

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

That, or easy access by bike.

Except in winter. :)

But yeah, a good public transport system would really add the downtown area.

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23 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Except in winter. :)

But yeah, a good public transport system would really add the downtown area.

Bird_Photo_3.0.jpg

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3 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Bird_Photo_3.0.jpg

LOL - these have become a big thing in Ann Arbor - and for some reason no-one can explain, the AAPD is having a hissy fit about people parking them between the side walk and the curb (where the heII else should you park them?)

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They're everywhere in Southern California.  I was out visiting my brother in San Diego a couple months ago and between them and the bikes you had to keep your head on a swivel at all times when you were walking or driving.   My brother said that people down there are so fed up with it that cops have had to fish them out the ocean after people threw them off the piers. 

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i saw those damn things all over the place in denver recently.

someone there was surprised that they didnt have them in chicago.  i laughed and said they would all get stolen, just like the bike sharing bikes.  there's a current "epidemic" of those being stolen in the city.  i read that of all the bike share bikes stolen in america, like 90% are stolen in chicago.  god bless this crime ridden place.

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

They're everywhere in Southern California.  I was out visiting my brother in San Diego a couple months ago and between them and the bikes you had to keep your head on a swivel at all times when you were walking or driving.   My brother said that people down there are so fed up with it that cops have had to fish them out the ocean after people threw them off the piers. 

Guess there's a hater in every crowd, but they are quite popular and welcome here in Long Beach. 

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5 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Detroit city council did approve at one time a subway system for Detroit. It passed by one vote. The mayor at the time, James Couzens, vetoed it and it went back to council. One council member switched their vote and it lost by one vote. The rest is history. Also worth noting a Dodge brother was on city council at the time.

true. Into the 40's the city had light rail street cars out to at least Oakman Blvd on the west, and electric buses out to Shafer till almost 1960. It wasn't like Detroit hadn't grown up with public transit just like every other city - it was that Detroit made a conscious decision to kill of the system we had.

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11 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

true. Into the 40's the city had light rail street cars out to at least Oakman Blvd on the west, and electric buses out to Shafer till almost 1960. It wasn't like Detroit hadn't grown up with public transit just like every other city - it was that Detroit made a conscious decision to kill of the system we had.

Every city ripped out their street car system. The PeopleMover was suppose to be part of a larger project that would include light rail on the major arteries radiating out of Detroit. Instead Coleman Young pushed it through and it went massively over budget and we we're left with a Disney Word style monorail. I mean it put North Haverbrook on the map...

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Wasn’t part of the Ford Field plan to have office space and possibly some retail space for rent as well?

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4 minutes ago, CMRivdog said:

Wasn’t part of the Ford Field plan to have office space and possibly some retail space for rent as well?

Ford Field does have office space. Campbell-Ewald moved into the office space. Still the majority of the building is dedicated to the stadium plus the necessary parking. I will say Ford Field integrates into downtown as well as an NFL stadium can. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Every city ripped out their street car system. The PeopleMover was suppose to be part of a larger project that would include light rail on the major arteries radiating out of Detroit. Instead Coleman Young pushed it through and it went massively over budget and we we're left with a Disney Word style monorail. I mean it put North Haverbrook on the map...

Don't you think that by the time Coleman was there the battle was already lost though? The political will to spend for transit in Detroit was lost when the exodus out of the city started, and that predated even Coleman. By the time Coleman was elected the exodus had already been in high gear for several years. Even if Coleman had been someone else would it have made any difference to the momentum of the movement of all those people, their money and their political interests? Coleman certainly helped poison the well of any co-operation between city and suburbs that could have helped any number of issues, but I don't see a massive public works project for the city like that having been funded when the politically empowered population had already left. 

I think the story you posted above about Couzens is closer to the real political pivot on transit. And if you think about it, you can see that even then, the white and better off in the city had already moved out to Palmer Woods, Rosedale, and any number of neighborhoods north of 5 mile(Fenkell) and west of Greenfield where a subway wasn't going to reach. In a sense because of Detroit's huge geographical size, the suburban split started even before there were suburbs.

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21 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Don't you think that by the time Coleman was there the battle was already lost though? The political will to spend for transit in Detroit was lost when the exodus out of the city started, and that predated even Coleman. By the time Coleman was elected the exodus had already been in high gear for several years. Even if Coleman had been someone else would it have made any difference to the momentum of the movement of all those people, their money and their political interests? Coleman certainly helped poison the well of any co-operation between city and suburbs that could have helped any number of issues, but I don't see a massive public works project for the city like that having been funded when the politically empowered population had already left. 

I think the story you posted above about Couzens is closer to the real political pivot on transit. And if you think about it, you can see that even then, the white and better off in the city had already moved out to Palmer Woods, Rosedale, and any number of neighborhoods north of 5 mile(Fenkell) and west of Greenfield where a subway wasn't going to reach. In a sense because of Detroit's huge geographical size, the suburban split started even before there were suburbs.

Detroit had secured 600 million in federal funds for a transit project. Coleman Young amongst other local leaders couldn't come up with an agreement and Reagan yanked the funds. Instead he pushed through the People Mover. There was even a plan in place as late as the early 80's to push through a subway. Remember Detroit still had over a million people and still fairly dense. Also keep in mind the RenCen was just built, Joe Louis arena just opened, Hudson's was still open downtown, and the Republican Convention was just in Detroit. Detroit still had a lot going for it in the late 70's and still had a large middle class white population. 

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5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Detroit had secured 600 million in federal funds for a transit project. Coleman Young amongst other local leaders couldn't come up with an agreement and Reagan yanked the funds. Instead he pushed through the People Mover. There was even a plan in place as late as the early 80's to push through a subway. Remember Detroit still had over a million people and still fairly dense.

I remember that fiasco. Still - $600 million wasn't going to build a subway - even in 1980 dollars. 

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1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

$600 million wasn't going to build a subway - even in 1974 though.

Those were just federal funds. There were still local and private funds and Detroit wasn't exactly broke yet. 

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Those were just federal funds. There were still local and private funds and Detroit wasn't exactly broke yet. 

I was just going to amend the earlier post - I don't remember where Milliken was on the issue. I don't have any recollection of the State  taking much of a leadership role politically though. Of course I don't think Bill Milliken ever much got "out front' on anything. -LOL

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On 9/27/2018 at 5:49 PM, Yoda said:

Guess there's a hater in every crowd, but they are quite popular and welcome here in Long Beach. 

I think they are great.  

The problem is the assholes who steal them.  

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Casino sold.......................next move coming.    

 

I am predicting we'll hear about the sale sometime right before Spring Training.  

I would guess it will be a year or 2 later if ever and do not be completely shocked if it is the Lions he buys.

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FWIW - xyt radio reported he that this morning he denied he was buying the Tigers.  Don't dismiss the possibility that he may be a little cash short and was looking to convert assets to keep some of the other projects on schedule. The Hudson block plus Book Tower and the Stot bldg were huge projects to take on all together.

That said, the Lions are also an interesting play. As a spouse, Martha inherited Bills estate essentially tax free. I suppose it's possible the kids would like her to convert the asset into trusts or other forms that won't cost them as much as inheriting the Lions would.

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

FWIW - xyt radio reported he that this morning he denied he was buying the Tigers.  Don't dismiss the possibility that he may be a little cash short and was looking to convert assets to keep some of the other projects on schedule. The Hudson block plus Book Tower and the Stot bldg were huge projects to take on all together.

It could also be that he just doesn’t want to be in the casino business going forward and that his people concluded the best time to sell was now, and they can get a better return on the money investing it elsewhere. 

I mean, the guy owns some casinos and happens to have a presence in Detroit and is also a sports team owner. Any time he decides to sell the casinos he would have the same rumor attached to it. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

It could also be that he just doesn’t want to be in the casino business going forward and that his people concluded the best time to sell was now, and they can get a better return on the money investing it elsewhere. 

I mean, the guy owns some casinos and happens to have a presence in Detroit and is also a sports team owner. Any time he decides to sell the casinos he would have the same rumor attached to it. 

Indeed.

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On 11/14/2018 at 1:01 PM, Shelton said:

It could also be that he just doesn’t want to be in the casino business going forward and that his people concluded the best time to sell was now, and they can get a better return on the money investing it elsewhere. 

I mean, the guy owns some casinos and happens to have a presence in Detroit and is also a sports team owner. Any time he decides to sell the casinos he would have the same rumor attached to it. 

He still owns a casino in Cleveland, so I'm not sure he's in the clear for MLB ownership yet anyway.

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1 hour ago, clark1mt said:

He still owns a casino in Cleveland, so I'm not sure he's in the clear for MLB ownership yet anyway.

FWIW - the story in Crane's was that he had no core interest in owning it. He supposedly only bought it because he though it was being mismanaged and he didn't want it go downhill and damage valuations in the area. Having turned around the operation to his satisfaction and to where he could take a profit, there was no reason not to take his money back out.

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5 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

FWIW - the story in Crane's was that he had no core interest in owning it. He supposedly only bought it because he though it was being mismanaged and he didn't want it go downhill and damage valuations in the area. Having turned around the operation to his satisfaction and to where he could take a profit, there was no reason not to take his money back out.

Sounds similar to Greektown. Wasn't Greektown on the verge of bankruptcy? No surprise, Gilbert owns the jail site not far away from Greektown. 

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33 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Sounds similar to Greektown. Wasn't Greektown on the verge of bankruptcy? No surprise, Gilbert owns the jail site not far away from Greektown. 

sorry for the sloppy pronoun use - the article in Crane's was about Greektown - not Cleveland. So yes, it should should sound similar to Greektown!

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