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Tenacious D

The Tigers should try and sign Manny Machado

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I realize that we are in full-blown rebuild mode, but Machado plays a position of need and is only 26 years old.  Someone is going to have to pony up for 8-10 years, at $30 mil per.  That would take him to age 35-37.  We now have the payroll flexibility and he’s a generational talent at a premium position, along with Correa and Lindor.  He’s also a guy to help market the team for the next couple of years until all of the youngsters arrive and would be a part of the next championship team.  He also won’t require surrendering a draft pick to the team that signs him.

the question will be what his market looks like?  Any team could have signed J.D. Martinez this offseason, and he lasted until January.  If teams are fiscally conservative again, the best offer might get him.  

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He's absolutely horrible at SS. He's only worth a big contract if he'll play 3B where his defense is elite.

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5 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

He's absolutely horrible at SS. He's only worth a big contract if he'll play 3B where his defense is elite.

yeah - was going to post the same. Actually for whatever reason, his defensive numbers at short with the Dodgers haven't been as been, but not much sample size there yet. It's possible he was just 'rusty' at Short in Baltimore in the 1st half, but do you want to give him big money on a guess like that if he still demands to play Short?

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It would be a gross waste of money to sign Machado ..perhaps upwards of $230m+ for 7 years+ ..because Tigers may not become serious World Championship contenders until at least 2024/2025 ..and by that time ..at age 32/33 ..Machado probably will be beginning a natural decline.

Would it not make more fiscal sense to tank for 5 more years and draft a new, much younger, Machado-type player ..or two?

 

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He is a consistently elite hitter, who should continue to be elite or near enough for five more years.  6'2/3" and, reportedly, only 185 lbs.  He is a guy to build a team around.  That said, he will want more eggs that the Tigers probably ought to put in one basket at this point.  He may also prefer a larger market, but that is a guess.

I agree that him playing SS is silly unless Mike Schmidt is a teammate.

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You don't build cores through free agency, you add to them. Given that the Tigers don't currently have a sufficient core capable of a string a winning seasons, they aren't ready to start adding costly fee agents.

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41 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

You don't build cores through free agency, you add to them. Given that the Tigers don't currently have a sufficient core capable of a string a winning seasons, they aren't ready to start adding costly fee agents.

This is a textbook answer.  You need to look at the circumstances and not apply a blanket approach.  We have the payroll flexibility and he’s not blocking anyone.  I’d agree that signing someone now to a 3-5 year deal as they would only be a stopgap and not a good solution.  However, Machado is only 26–he’s the type of player a rebuilding team would want to acquire.  His contract will ensure that he’s part of the next playoff-caliber team.  Similar to what we did when we acquired Miggy, except that we don’t have to give up any prospects to get him.

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12 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

This is a textbook answer.  You need to look at the circumstances and not apply a blanket approach.  We have the payroll flexibility and he’s not blocking anyone.  I’d agree that signing someone now to a 3-5 year deal as they would only be a stopgap and not a good solution.  However, Machado is only 26–he’s the type of player a rebuilding team would want to acquire.  His contract will ensure that he’s part of the next playoff-caliber team.  Similar to what we did when we acquired Miggy, except that we don’t have to give up any prospects to get him.

Free agent long term contracts offer diminishing returns as a rule. So by the time the Tigs are contenders, and who knows when that will be, he will have most likely began his decline. Plus it would be adding a couple wins each year and subtracting value gained from the draft.

Why not just wait a couple of years and sign a guy when they are closer to winning? IMO short cuts are dangerous. The Cubs drafted in the top ten 4 times, traded for Arrieta, Rizzo, and Russell, and developed Contreras, Hendricks, Jimenez, and Torres before they started spending.

 

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We will have a top 5 in next year’s draft and even if we add Machado, we’ll likely still be close to that in the 2020 and 2021 drafts (which might be the reason he won’t want to sign with us).  We should start making positive progress by the 2021 season.  

This is only a 5-year rebuild if we want it to be.  There is no blueprint for this and from a business standpoint, I don’t think this organization wants to be insignificant for too long. Next season has the potential to be worse than this one.  How long will the fan base stay engaged?

I’m not suggesting abandoning a plan—just supplementing it.  Guys like Machado don’t come around frequently.  I don’t know if he can play SS long-term, but we have the luxury of indulging him for awhile.  An eventual move to 3B might need to happen and he has said he’s open to it.

 

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

.  Similar to what we did when we acquired Miggy, except that we don’t have to give up any prospects to get him.

Yeah - it's not that out of the ballpark. I think it comes down to 2 things - how many years would Manny accept? If he wants a 15 yr deal or something that takes him out to the kind of age we gave Miguel, you have to pass. And the second is how Avila views the draft. If he thinks he has to draft high for at least another year, then a deal for Manny just comes too soon in his scheme because he doesn't really want to win much next year either. Now maybe he has some kind of confidence that they have a system in place today to allow him to find top talent just as reliably with mid-round picks - but that seems far fetched to me.

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Too much money for sub par defender at shortstop. 

If we really want to start spending money now in free agency we better be confidant the core we have in the minors can win by 2021. 

If it’s my $$ and decision I would consider Marwin Gonzalez the super Astro sub. He is 29 and defends well at many position. He would fill many spots and ease the uncertainty of which current minor leaguer pans out at which position. He probably even plays a better shortstop than Machado. 

Way cheaper too

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36 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Too much money for sub par defender at shortstop. 

If we really want to start spending money now in free agency we better be confidant the core we have in the minors can win by 2021. 

If it’s my $$ and decision I would consider Marwin Gonzalez the super Astro sub. He is 29 and defends well at many position. He would fill many spots and ease the uncertainty of which current minor leaguer pans out at which position. He probably even plays a better shortstop than Machado. 

Way cheaper too

Why are we discussing a .318 career OBP, utility man in a thread regarding a top-10 offensive talent?  Gonzalez is exactly they kind of player we shouldn’t be looking at, unless it’s to sign him to a reasonable contract with the intent of trading him for prospects.  If we’re not going to pursue a talent like Machado to build around, I would just assume keep Iglesias until Alcantara or Castro are ready.

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2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Why are we discussing a .318 career OBP, utility man in a thread regarding a top-10 offensive talent?  

I think it's because discussing what the Tiger bats are going to do to the CWS today is too gruesome to contemplate.

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14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I realize that we are in full-blown rebuild mode, but Machado plays a position of need and is only 26 years old.  Someone is going to have to pony up for 8-10 years, at $30 mil per.  That would take him to age 35-37.  We now have the payroll flexibility and he’s a generational talent at a premium position, along with Correa and Lindor.  He’s also a guy to help market the team for the next couple of years until all of the youngsters arrive and would be a part of the next championship team.  He also won’t require surrendering a draft pick to the team that signs him.

the question will be what his market looks like?  Any team could have signed J.D. Martinez this offseason, and he lasted until January.  If teams are fiscally conservative again, the best offer might get him.  

Don't be greedy.  We already have a Machado.

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This whole thread is silly. 

We aren't going to sign him, and he won't sign here when he will have his pick of teams. 

Might as well sign Harper and trade for Bumgartner and Kluber too

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17 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

This whole thread is silly. 

We aren't going to sign him, and he won't sign here when he will have his pick of teams. 

Well aren't you a pail of cold water.

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Sign Maybin.

Retain Turner.

Trade them to Cleveland for Lindor.

<<mike drop>>

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There's also the question of does Machado even want to play in Detroit?  Say the Phillies and Tigers both offer him similar money, why would Machado pick the Tigers when the Phillies are much closer to contention?  

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24 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

Manny Machado is no Miguel Cabrera.

Correct.  He's younger, healthier, and plays better defense.

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You just describe Iggy.

43 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Correct.  He's younger, healthier, and plays better defense.

You just described Jose Iglesias.

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