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Meanwhile .. Former Tigers

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Meanwhile .. Former Tigers:

Justin Verlander ..SP .. 11 Wins, 6 Losses, 2.19 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, 24 GS, 204 KO's in 156.1 IP.

Max Scherzer ...... SP .. 15 Wins, 5 Losses, 2.33 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 23 GS, 210 KO's in 154.2 IP.

Rick Porcello ........ SP ..14 Wins, 4 Losses, 3.84 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 23 GS, 135 KO's in 140.2 IP.

David Price ........... SP ..11 Wins, 6 Losses, 3.93 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 22 GS, 124KO's in 128.1 IP.

Anibal Sanchez.. ....  SP ..6 Wins, 3 Losses, 2.89 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 14 GS,  83 KO's in 84.0 IP.

Robbie Ray .............. SP ..3 Wins, 2 Losses, 4.92 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 14 GS, 95 KO's in 71.1 IP.

Corey Knebel ........... RP ..2 Wins, 2 Losses, 3.89 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 35 Games Relief, 14 Saves in 17 Save Ops, 48 KO's in 34.2 IP.

Joakim Soria ........... RP ..0 Wins, 3 Losses, 2.30 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 45 Games Relief, 16 Saves in 19 Save Ops, 53 KO's in 43 IP.

Jose Alvarez ........... RP ..4 Wins, 3 Losses, 2.89 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 57 Games Relief, 44 KO's in 46.2 IP.

..................................

Avisial Garcia ........... RF ..50 G, 13 HR's, 26 RBI's, .269 BA, .523 SLG, .813 OPS. 

Hernan Perez ........... 2b ..93 G,  2 HR's , 27 RBI's, .256 BA, .423 SLG, .715 OPS .. 9 SB's, 2 CS.

Ian Kinsler ................ 2b ..94 G, 13 HR's, 34 RBI's, .244 BA, .408 SLG, .717 OPS, .. 11 SB's, 4 CS.

Eugenio Saurez ........ 3b ..95 G, 26 HR's, 85 RBI's, .304 BA, .584 SLG, 970 OPS.

Yeonis Cespedes ..... LF ..38 G, 9 HR's, 29 RBI's, .262 BA, .496 SLG, .821 OPS. (out for season)

Cameron Maybin ..... OF ..103 G, 3 HR's, 20 RBI's, .251 BA, .338 SLG, ..677 OPS, ..8 SB's, 5 CS.

Rajai Davis ............... OF ..71 G, 1 HR, 6 RBI's, 255 BA, .321 SLG, .625 OPS, ..16 SB's, 5 CS.

Justin Upton ............ LF ..110 G, 21 HR's, 61 RBI's, .256 BA, .443 SLG, .790 OPS, ..5 SB's 0 CS.

JD Martinez ............. RF ..106 G, 33 HR's, 93 RBI's, ..324 BA, .641 SLG, 1.033 OPS, ..3 SB's 0 CS.

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I'll wager you could do this for every team in MLB.

But I suppose that would just be other fans joining wallowing in the misery of the past.

 

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1 minute ago, LooseGoose said:

I'll wager you could do this for every team in MLB.

Probably could ..especially considering most of those players initially came from other teams.

 

But, ..it is interesting how much talent the Tigers had ..only to be where they currently are ..with very few top prospects obtained in trading most of them away.

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5 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I'll wager you could do this for every team in MLB.

But I suppose that would just be other fans joining wallowing in the misery of the past.

 

That is my typical response to posts like that, but I think the amount of talent of ex-Tigers is pretty unusual right now.  Two very strong Cy Young candidates and two guys who could be in the discussion for MVP?  That is pretty amazing.  

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41 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

That is my typical response to posts like that, but I think the amount of talent of ex-Tigers is pretty unusual right now.  Two very strong Cy Young candidates and two guys who could be in the discussion for MVP?  That is pretty amazing.  

I guess that's true although other teams could place a "claim" on Max and JD and lament what they got for them.

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24 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I guess that's true although other teams could place a "claim" on Max and JD and lament what they got for them.

But they didn't have Verlander.  

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The scherzer and Suarez ones are probably the ones that pain me the most because there really isn't any reason why we couldn't have kept them.  

Plus they were lost while the franchise was still in relatively good shape.  

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48 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

The scherzer and Suarez ones are probably the ones that pain me the most because there really isn't any reason why we couldn't have kept them.  

Plus they were lost while the franchise was still in relatively good shape.  

Also, if the had kept those guys they would have been in a position to keep Verlander and JD.

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Yeah, Chris Ilitch saved a lot of money (and probably some serious red ink), which is good to an extent, but I don't see **any** evidence that we have repositioned ourselves with young talent that will make us a winner again at some point in the future.  We have several decent prospects and younger players, but we are not looking like an up-and-coming team at all.

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I'm trying to think of a case in sports history, at least in the modern era, of a team like the Tigers that lost so many good players like this.  Usually when a team has a lot of good players they just get old and suck. 

 

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Ok....the Tigers had all of those guys and still didn't win a world series.   I'm not quite sure what the fuss is.     

 

BTW,  You left out Justin Wilson and everybody's favorite #2 hitter Alex Avila.    

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Dombrowski did a great job assembling talent in Detroit.  I still think Ilitch letting him go was a mistake.

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4 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I'm trying to think of a case in sports history, at least in the modern era, of a team like the Tigers that lost so many good players like this.  Usually when a team has a lot of good players they just get old and suck. 

 

They never really got close to being like the horrible Phillies...they were mis-managed and underperforming, but they were still a decent team...then WHAM, the firesale, and I see basically little/no reason to believe that we will be competitive again as long as this owner/GM combo is in place.  Maybe our savior is a from-the-ground-up GM, or maybe another DD type....I'm fine either way, but I don't believe AA has what it takes to make this happen regardless of the basic approach.

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1 minute ago, sabretooth said:

Yeah, Chris Ilitch saved a lot of money (and probably some serious red ink), which is good to an extent, but I don't see **any** evidence that we have repositioned ourselves with young talent that will make us a winner again at some point in the future.  We have several decent prospects and younger players, but we are not looking like an up-and-coming team at all.

Things can change fast in baseball, but I also am not optimistic about the organization at this point in time.  There is a large number of ex-tigers starring for other teams and not enough "can't miss" prospects in the system.  It is hard to pinpoint what exactly went wrong and maybe it couldn't be avoided, but I am not excited about the organization right now.  It feels weird, because it's been a long time since I felt this way, probably not since the Randy Smith years.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

Things can change fast in baseball, but I also am not optimistic about the organization at this point in time.  There is a large number of ex-tigers starring for other teams and not enough "can't miss" prospects in the system.  It is hard to pinpoint what exactly went wrong and maybe it couldn't be avoided, but I am not excited about the organization right now.  It feels weird, because it's been a long time since I felt this way, probably not since the Randy Smith years.  

I think we are at least 5 years away from being competitive again, which isn't Randy Smith territory but if Avila isn't careful, and Chris Ilitch isn't serious about investing the funds necessary to scout and develop prospects, we could be in for a similar era of futility.

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I think the organization is heading in the right direction, I mean this is really only the first true year of the rebuild and even in that time we have gone from having arguably the worst farm system in baseball to having 5 or 6 guys in the top 100 along with a few others that are within the next 20 or so.  We probably moved up nearly 15+ spots in a little over a year.   That is pretty good if you ask me. 

On top of that we have shed ourselves of any bad contracts(aside from Cabrera's) and are in position to spend money whenever the team feels like it is time.   Plus we're going to have another high draft pick this season and likely the following season on top of that.   So after a couple years of high draft picks along with the improvement of the ones we have things will start to look better.  

It's not going to happen overnight but atleast the team looks like it has a direction now.  By all acounts they had a good 2017 draft and this past draft has looked pretty good in SSS, with guys like Clemens and Meadows especially impressing.    Plus the wild card in all of this is Fulmer, if he comes back strong there is no reason why we couldn't package him for the true can't miss prospect we are looking for.   With that said if say a year from now our system is still in the 10-20 range and our guys have shown no improvement then I will really start to panic but as of now I see no reason to.   

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GIven that Chris Ilitch hasn't shown Kenny Holland the door tells me all I need to know about his desire to win.  The Wings and Tigers are just there to make money for the family.  Things are booming downtown and a lot of it is theirs.  Winning could increase their dollars but maybe not to the point were it's worth risking.

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39 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I'm trying to think of a case in sports history, at least in the modern era, of a team like the Tigers that lost so many good players like this.  Usually when a team has a lot of good players they just get old and suck. 

 

The 1960's Mets traded away most of an all-star pitching staff and got pretty much nowhere, but even the 100 win Mets team really didn't have much notable position talent to lose so it wasn't loss of talent across the board.

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This is, after all, why they call it 'mortgaging the future' when you make short term moves with bad long term implications to try to push a team across the finish line. Whether you make it or not, and just to add insult to injury the Tigers didn't get a WS win, you end up with a millstone around you future ability to rebuild in terms of bad contracts and system depletion. I'm sure there are people complaining about how bad things are who were right in the front row over the last 6 or so years hollering that they didn't care what happened later, the very mostest importantest thing was do make every move possible right now to win that WS. And probably Mike Ilitch was the leader of that pack - so nothing really could have ended up differently.

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The All Began Their Career in the Tigers system team:

C McCann/Avila

1B Castellanos

2B Travis

SS Adames

3B Saurez

LF Granderson

CF Maybin/Gorky

RF Garcia

DH Joyce/Perez

SP Verlander

SP Porcello

SP ???? Smyly 

SP Buck Farmer

SP Dave Rozema

Pen: Knebel, Miller, Green, Rodney, Jimenez

Oddly the best part of this team is the bullpen, I would say that pen would be in the running for the best in baseball. And you see that they have had a couple of successes in Latin America despite seeming like they never do. 

Starting pitching would doom this team, beyond JV and Porcello their aren't any guys currently in a rotation that I can think of. 

 

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