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kj2018

Is it time to let Victor Ride Off into the Sunset??

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37 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

If Victor were to just walk away, I think they would bring up one of the journeyman minor leagues like Adduci. I think you have to keep everyone under ~28 playing everyday somewhere they might still have some chance of turning any kind of corner - which for Mahtook is AAA. I think Mikie's more likely path back is if Jones gets so bad they have to send him back down and Mahtook would start in LF and play pretty much full time.

I don't know.  Reyes isn't playing much and that seems to be by design.  An OF of Jones/Martin/Mahtook with Castellanos at DH seems like it'd be likely.

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28 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I don't know.  Reyes isn't playing much and that seems to be by design.  An OF of Jones/Martin/Mahtook with Castellanos at DH seems like it'd be likely.

I guess that would depend on Cabrera. If we assume anyone else playing at DH in place of Victor is just keeping the spot warm for the rest of this season,  and that Miguel goes there next season, then I think Nick needs to keep getting every rep in RF. If you believe that next season Nick would play at DH with Miguel at 1b, then you get a different conclusion, but that seems the less likely future to me.

Then again, we could assume Cabrera never gets >250 AB in a season again and that is probably a different result.

IMO, DHing is not going to materially help Cabrera stay off the DL anyway, but that is a different topic.

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some ugly stats for Victor:

 

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2018 Totals 72 65 274 249 15 60 10 0 4 26 0 0 21 29 .241 .299 .329 .629 82 12 1 0 3 3 1 .256 100 75
Last 7 days 6 6 23 21 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 .190 .261 .190 .451 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 .235 45 32
Last 14 days 10 9 37 35 1 8 1 0 0 2 0 0 2 5 .229 .270 .257 .527 9 4 0 0 0 0 0 .267 68 48
Last 28 days 23 21 87 82 3 18 3 0 0 4 0 0 5 11 .220 .264 .256 .520 21 4 0 0 0 0 0 .254 66 47

 

Bases Occupied

 
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
RISP 57   93 76 10 12 4 0 0 18 0 0 14 10 .158 .280 .211 .490 16 4 0 0 3 3 1 .174 58 37
--- 61   128 121 2 33 2 0 2 2 0 0 6 16 .273 .313 .339 .651 41 0 1 0 0 0 0 .301 108 87
Men On 65   146 128 13 27 8 0 2 24 0 0 15 13 .211 .288 .320 .608 41 12 0 0 3 3 1 .216 94 65

Clutch Stats

 
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2 outs, RISP 38   54 41 6 6 2 0 0 7 0 0 13 4 .146 .352 .195 .547 8 0 0 0 0 3 0 .162 77  

In his last 44 games:  31-141, .220, 4 doubles, 1 HR, OBP of .273, SLG of .269, OPS of .542.  7 GIDP, and a ton of RISP chances with runners not advanced.

No reason to not just call it a career at this point

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4 minutes ago, kj2018 said:

some ugly stats for Victor:

 

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2018 Totals 72 65 274 249 15 60 10 0 4 26 0 0 21 29 .241 .299 .329 .629 82 12 1 0 3 3 1 .256 100 75
Last 7 days 6 6 23 21 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 .190 .261 .190 .451 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 .235 45 32
Last 14 days 10 9 37 35 1 8 1 0 0 2 0 0 2 5 .229 .270 .257 .527 9 4 0 0 0 0 0 .267 68 48
Last 28 days 23 21 87 82 3 18 3 0 0 4 0 0 5 11 .220 .264 .256 .520 21 4 0 0 0 0 0 .254 66 47

 

Bases Occupied

 
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
RISP 57   93 76 10 12 4 0 0 18 0 0 14 10 .158 .280 .211 .490 16 4 0 0 3 3 1 .174 58 37
--- 61   128 121 2 33 2 0 2 2 0 0 6 16 .273 .313 .339 .651 41 0 1 0 0 0 0 .301 108 87
Men On 65   146 128 13 27 8 0 2 24 0 0 15 13 .211 .288 .320 .608 41 12 0 0 3 3 1 .216 94 65

Clutch Stats

 
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2 outs, RISP 38   54 41 6 6 2 0 0 7 0 0 13 4 .146 .352 .195 .547 8 0 0 0 0 3 0 .162 77  

In his last 44 games:  31-141, .220, 4 doubles, 1 HR, OBP of .273, SLG of .269, OPS of .542.  7 GIDP, and a ton of RISP chances with runners not advanced.

No reason to not just call it a career at this point

I think he probably has plans for the other nine million dollars. 

Now, if we're talking about forcing him to ride off into that sunset, then no, no reason not to do that. 

I'm just going to assume the best about Victor. Maybe he's just enjoying his last summer and soaking it all up and we're basically not looking to win, so Avila and crew are throwing him a bone to honor Ilitch.

Let's just send him home. 

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14 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I guess that would depend on Cabrera. If we assume anyone else playing at DH in place of Victor is just keeping the spot warm for the rest of this season,  and that Miguel goes there next season, then I think Nick needs to keep getting every rep in RF. If you believe that next season Nick would play at DH with Miguel at 1b, then you get a different conclusion, but that seems the less likely future to me.

Then again, we could assume Cabrera never gets >250 AB in a season again and that is probably a different result.

IMO, DHing is not going to materially help Cabrera stay off the DL anyway, but that is a different topic.

I'm just thinking about this season.  After this season, they can move Reyes to Toledo for more development.

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Victor was signed to protect Cabrera in the line up.   This is no longer needed.   End of story. 

Victor would be better off batting leadoff.   He's not driving anybody home anyways.  Plus, he would hit into less doubleplays that way.   

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On 6/27/2018 at 11:00 PM, kj2018 said:

I dont think you want to play your worst guys to lose games.  But that is just me.  I would call up anybody, Adducci, Stewart, anybody else toiling down there in Toledo or Erie.  We have already seen other teams pull the plug this year (Henly  Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez),  Both of those guys also had distinguished careers, and they were both released by their teams,.  The season is half over, there is no reason to hold onto Victor, IMO, at this point

Yeah it is simply hard to watch now.  For those watching every game to see V Mart come up it is just painful to watch on multiple fronts.  Stick him on the DL for anything, have a talk with him that lets him know they are basically sending him off to retire, maybe let him get a few more AB's later in the year and call a kid up and let them have a shot.

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In the game tonight, Victor was 16th out of 18 hittters in terms of OPS.  That went down when Goodrum came into the game.

Yet he bats cleanup game after game. 

In the Tigers last 38 games, Victor is 31 for 121, with 4 walks.  He has 1 double, no home runs, has scored 4 runs and knocked in 5 runs.

.256 BA - .280 OBP - .265 SLG - .545 OPS

Yikes

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According to baseball savant which uses statcast to measure batted ball data, Victor's xwOBA(what your wOBA is expected to be based off the quality of your contact plus K and BBs) is .350 which is .077 better than his actual number which makes him the 4th unluckiest hitter in the baseball by that metric.    That's obviously not a flawless metric but maybe just maybe Victor is due for a little correction and might be in store for a hot streak.   Maybe that's what Gardenhire and the Tigers brass are banking on.  

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1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

According to baseball savant which uses statcast to measure batted ball data, Victor's xwOBA(what your wOBA is expected to be based off the quality of your contact plus K and BBs) is .350 which is .077 better than his actual number which makes him the 4th unluckiest hitter in the baseball by that metric.    That's obviously not a flawless metric but maybe just maybe Victor is due for a little correction and might be in store for a hot streak.   Maybe that's what Gardenhire and the Tigers brass are banking on.  

Lets hope so.  But i think that the shifts get him, as he hits most of his balls on the ground and into the shift.  He may hit it hard, but it most of the time right into the teeth of the defense.

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7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

According to baseball savant which uses statcast to measure batted ball data, Victor's xwOBA(what your wOBA is expected to be based off the quality of your contact plus K and BBs) is .350 which is .077 better than his actual number which makes him the 4th unluckiest hitter in the baseball by that metric.    That's obviously not a flawless metric but maybe just maybe Victor is due for a little correction and might be in store for a hot streak.   Maybe that's what Gardenhire and the Tigers brass are banking on.  

Yup. Gardenhire mentioned in his recent interview that Victor's ABs were still better than those of anyone hitting below him despite the lack of results.

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Well if there is a silver lining at least all of the "call up Christin Stewart" talk has faded away, thank goodness.  Right now he is in the process of replicating his Erie season from last year, a hot start followed by a seemingly irreversible decline.  He's had his butt nailed to the bench for the past 2 games, preceded by 7-for-35 in his previous 10 games.  Yes he hit 2 home runs this week, which was nice because it had been a long long time since the previous one.  Up until now I had been advocating a June 30 callup, but I think that that has evaporated.  

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2 hours ago, kj2018 said:

In the game tonight, Victor was 16th out of 18 hittters in terms of OPS.  That went down when Goodrum came into the game.

Yet he bats cleanup game after game. 

In the Tigers last 38 games, Victor is 31 for 121, with 4 walks.  He has 1 double, no home runs, has scored 4 runs and knocked in 5 runs.

.256 BA - .280 OBP - .265 SLG - .545 OPS

Yikes

No one cares. 

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26 minutes ago, Shelton said:

No one cares. 

you cared enough to post.  

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9 minutes ago, kj2018 said:

you cared enough to post.  

Classic response. 

I care about how tiresome your victor updates are. 

No one wants to hear your constant victor hate. We all understand that he is a bad baseball player.

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If Martinez is on the roster, they have to use him.

They obviously want to keep Reyes and it seems like they don't want to overexpose him by playing him right now.  They have to keep him on the roster but he is overmatched at this level for regular playing time.

Martinez can't do anything on defense.  The only way to use him is as a DH.  This also allows for an already thin bench to be available for defense.  They've bounced down to 12 position players once in a while this season.  2 catchers and Martinez leaves only 2 gloves on the bench for 7 positions, 1 of whom is the already addressed Reyes.  Guys need a day off every now and again.

You could move Martinez down in the lineup, but he's still going to be in the lineup around 6 or 7 probably.

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

If Martinez is on the roster, they have to use him.

They obviously want to keep Reyes and it seems like they don't want to overexpose him by playing him right now.  They have to keep him on the roster but he is overmatched at this level for regular playing time.

Martinez can't do anything on defense.  The only way to use him is as a DH.  This also allows for an already thin bench to be available for defense.  They've bounced down to 12 position players once in a while this season.  2 catchers and Martinez leaves only 2 gloves on the bench for 7 positions, 1 of whom is the already addressed Reyes.  Guys need a day off every now and again.

You could move Martinez down in the lineup, but he's still going to be in the lineup around 6 or 7 probably.

I still suggest if they play him, bat him first.  He actually has been a pretty decent on base person with nobody on base and it removes at least one time for certain for him to not bounce into a DP.  

I know that will never happen, but  ....

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11 hours ago, Shelton said:

Classic response. 

I care about how tiresome your victor updates are. 

No one wants to hear your constant victor hate. We all understand that he is a bad baseball player.

Fair enough, i am one to beat the dead horse

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Going forward, I'd put Castellanos at first and make Cabrera the DH.  As bad as Castellanos is at third and in the outfield, he'd probably be just fine at first -- and almost certainly better than Cabrera, who is really not a good defender and isn't getting better with age -- not to mention his difficulties staying healthy, a situation that could be helped by keeping him off the field.

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The Tigers need Victor Martinez to help them with draft position for next year.

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2 hours ago, six-hopper said:

Going forward, I'd put Castellanos at first and make Cabrera the DH.  As bad as Castellanos is at third and in the outfield, he'd probably be just fine at first -- and almost certainly better than Cabrera, who is really not a good defender and isn't getting better with age -- not to mention his difficulties staying healthy, a situation that could be helped by keeping him off the field.

Cabrera  has not been a horrible 1b. There are some things he does very well: saving poor throws, turning the 3-6-3 DP. But certainly if he gets to where he is scared to move for fear of injury that will turn him into a total liability in the field. The only problem with Nick at 1b is that he probably can't sustain the OPS you want to see there.

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14 hours ago, Shelton said:

Classic response. 

I care about how tiresome your victor updates are. 

No one wants to hear your constant victor hate. We all understand that he is a bad baseball player.

Amen to that.

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