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kj2018

Is it time to let Victor Ride Off into the Sunset??

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Victor Martinez has been the consummate professional for many years.  He has had a solid career.  He has helped the Tigers through his long tenure here in Detroit.   He deserves to be treated with dignity.  

There has to be some sort of conclusion that is acceptable to all parties, right?

He is having an awful year. His WAR is negative 1.2, bottom 5 in the AL, and he does not even play in the field.  

Here are his key numbers:

Rk Name G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP
HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
1 Victor Martinez 71 64 270 247 15 60 10 0 4 26 0 0 19 29 .243 .296 .332 .628 82 12 1 0 3 3 1 .258

100

He is hitting .154 with RISP, his OPS is usually less than most every other player that starts the game (on Tuesday night, every A had a higher OPS then him)

The Tigers need to find a way to allow him to gracefully go off into the sunset.  Call up anybody to take his place. 

I get the whole loyalty and $$$$ issues here, and it really does not matter, but at this point, i feel like it is time to figure out a way to end this.  

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No reason to do that. He's been a mentor for the young players. They have nobody else. Let him play and finish out the contract. He helps us get a higher draft pick.

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3 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

No reason to do that. He's been a mentor for the young players. They have nobody else. Let him play and finish out the contract. He helps us get a higher draft pick.

At the core of this, I think you could be right. Getting a top-five draft slot and letting Victor finish his career with as much dignity as possible--especially with Miggy being out--may outweigh getting Reyes/Stewart playing time/MLB seasoning. 

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I dont think you want to play your worst guys to lose games.  But that is just me.  I would call up anybody, Adducci, Stewart, anybody else toiling down there in Toledo or Erie.  We have already seen other teams pull the plug this year (Henly  Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez),  Both of those guys also had distinguished careers, and they were both released by their teams,.  The season is half over, there is no reason to hold onto Victor, IMO, at this point

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If I'm Victor I'm feigning an injury or something.   It's gotta be hard for him to go up there and struggle as bad as he has.  He's not going to just retire or take a demotion so maybe an "injury" that puts him out for most of the season may be in his best interest.  

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I almost want them to keep playing Victor to troll you guys.

You say that jokingly but I'm starting to feel the same way.  It's like I'm looking forward to seeing him leave the bases loaded just to see all the complaining...myself included.lol

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22 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

At the core of this, I think you could be right. Getting a top-five draft slot and letting Victor finish his career with as much dignity as possible--especially with Miggy being out--may outweigh getting Reyes/Stewart playing time/MLB seasoning. 

Reyes is a nothing. Stewart and Lugo should stay in Toledo until at least August.

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It still comes back to the fact that there is really no hitter in the system they feel any need to bring up. As long as Victor isn't blocking anyone they care about and his money is guaranteed, there isn't much pressure to do anything. That said, Victor was pretty brutal in June.

Under normal circumstances, you would have a player somewhere that you thought could out-perform what he is doing, and you would care if he did. The Tigers are in the unusual situation that the top of the farm system is barren and team performance is not a high priority this season.

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10 hours ago, kj2018 said:

I dont think you want to play your worst guys to lose games.  But that is just me. 

I agree with you.  A team should never do things which help them lose games.  That goes against the very essence of sports.  All the teams "tanking" this year is bad for the game. 

They might think he is a mentor , although it's difficult to see what a guy who can't hit, run or field is teaching anybody.  I think the main reason nothing is being done is they don't have anybody that is likely to do much better.  I'd rather they try somebody else, but it's not a big deal this year.  

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13 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I'd rather they try somebody else, but it's not a big deal this year.  

I would rate the closest position player they have likely to be able to play in the majors as Cameron - and he just got to AA. 

All the other high minor league hitters they had are already on the roster...😢

The part that is crazy is a guy in the 4 spot with his numbers - but this is such a weak hitting team so it's not like where he hits matters much either.

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I would rate the closest position player they have likely to be able to play in the majors as Cameron - and he just got to AA. 

All the other high minor league hitters they had are already on the roster...😢

Aren't you forgetting someone?

 

MV5BNjM2MDg4NzE0MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDE1

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12 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

Aren't you forgetting someone?

 

MV5BNjM2MDg4NzE0MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDE1

That's a good point, but he doesn't really want to be in Detroit.  Otherwise, he would have been up a long time ago.  Deuce also helps Toledo at the gate, so that is a consideration.  

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22 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

That's a good point, but he doesn't really want to be in Detroit.  Otherwise, he would have been up a long time ago.  Deuce also helps Toledo at the gate, so that is a consideration.  

some people just know enough to enjoy being the biggest fish without worrying  if they're in the biggest pond.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I would rate the closest position player they have likely to be able to play in the majors as Cameron - and he just got to AA. 

All the other high minor league hitters they had are already on the roster...😢

 

Does the Robson kid they just promoted to TOL have a shot?  He seems to have done OK at each MiLB stop so far.

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11 hours ago, Sydney_Fife said:

No reason to do that. He's been a mentor for the young players. They have nobody else. Let him play and finish out the contract. He helps us get a higher draft pick.

After last year's meltdown, I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/09/24/detroit-tigers-brad-ausmus-al-avila/697075001/

Quote

 

Martinez’s exchange with Verlander came almost a year to the date of his behavior reaching a breaking point in the clubhouse in the aftermath of an Aug. 27 loss to the Angels last season. In that game, four Tigers were ejected for arguing balls and strikes, including Martinez.

According to multiple people with first-hand knowledge of the situation, Martinez left Comerica Park early and was nowhere to be seen when the team entered the clubhouse after the game. The people requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on clubhouse matters.

The early departure became a talking point inside the clubhouse, and when Martinez learned of that, he singled out a teammate for leading a whisper campaign, sources said. Martinez confronted the player, and they needed to be separated.

On Aug. 25, Martinez declined to answer questions about the clubhouse incident. 
Ausmus also declined to answer questions that day, saying, “What happens in the clubhouse, stays in the clubhouse, for me.”

The incident is considered the point when Martinez detached himself as a leader, and the way he handled the matter did not sit well with the clubhouse, a source said.

 

Also, V-Mart has accumulated -3.2 fWAR over his 4-year, $68 million contract, possibly making it the worst contract the Tigers have ever signed.  

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It has been time for about 2 months, but like I said in another thread, Avila is an idiot that refuses to make changes.  There are plenty of better options for the BP, yet he just recycles the same **** pitchers in and out every time.  The guy is completely clueless.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

some people just know enough to enjoy being the biggest fish without worrying  if they're in the biggest pond.

Right, he knows he would be the coolest guy at any level but he doesn't need to be at the top.  It all comes easy to him and it's not really a challenge.  He is just enjoying the Toledo experience.

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I don't think Deuce has complete faith in Barbato or Lewicki yet to run his day to day operations in Toledo.  Once he does he'll probably accept a call up, then wisely pull a muscle and go on the DL to collect that MLB money.  Sr. taught him right.  

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Funny I thought this thread was about Victor Reyes.  Please take him back, Arizona!

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Maybe Victor is preventing the Tigers from playing Mahtook at the MLB level to see if he fits for next year. They could rotate players through DH.

But maybe they have already moved on from Mickie

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2 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

After last year's meltdown, I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/09/24/detroit-tigers-brad-ausmus-al-avila/697075001/

Also, V-Mart has accumulated -3.2 fWAR over his 4-year, $68 million contract, possibly making it the worst contract the Tigers have ever signed.  

I think most remember victor’s issues in the clubhouse last year. But I also think if he were a negative in the clubhouse, he would be gone at this point. 

He’s easily replaced by Adduci or another scrub if that were the case and if they didn’t want to call up Stewart or anyone else who they may not feel is ready. I can only assume at this point that they see some value in keeping him around as a veteran presence. 

Mahtook would seem like the one that is being hurt most. But I don’t think he’s doing all that well in Toledo anyway. 

Maybe if Cabrera were healthy they would want to see Hicks getting more playing time.

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40 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Mahtook would seem like the one that is being hurt most. But I don’t think he’s doing all that well in Toledo anyway. 

I thought this same thing, so I decided to look up Mahtook.

After a rough start, he's actually been quite good in AAA. 912 OPS in May. 836 OPS in June. 

Even in these good months, he's still striking out way too much tho. 41ks in 146 ABs from May to June.

Still, he plays good defense and is the guy likely hurting the most from V-Mart. 

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1 hour ago, irvink said:

I thought this same thing, so I decided to look up Mahtook.

After a rough start, he's actually been quite good in AAA. 912 OPS in May. 836 OPS in June. 

Even in these good months, he's still striking out way too much tho. 41ks in 146 ABs from May to June.

Still, he plays good defense and is the guy likely hurting the most from V-Mart. 

If Victor were to just walk away, I think they would bring up one of the journeyman minor leagues like Adduci. I think you have to keep everyone under ~28 playing everyday somewhere they might still have some chance of turning any kind of corner - which for Mahtook is AAA. I think Mikie's more likely path back is if Jones gets so bad they have to send him back down and Mahtook would start in LF and play pretty much full time.

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