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DumberAndLeaner

After 72 games

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Take away that brutally cold April and Iggy is hitting close to .300 with outstanding defense.    Someone could probably use him. 

as a matter of fact, 775 OPS since May 1.

But Iggy is probably exactly the kind of player with surplus value today. His D probably plays a little better than it scores because he's always willing to try any kind of do-or-die play, he doesn't hit for power which probably means other teams will undervalue his net offense, he is streaky with the bat so probably everyone has scouting him at some time when he looked bad, and he is usually pretty good on the bases. They also do not have a near ready replacement. My guess is the Tigers can keep him at a reasonable price, and that he will yield more value to them at that price than they could hope to get in return. That is unless Avila really wants to blow it all up again this August and shoot for another top pick.

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My eye test says Iggy is not a .300 hitter.  He is what his carer average says he is...a .270 hitter with no power.  He can put the bat on the ball, but his eye is really bad IMO because he swings way too much.  Some of his swings are really groddy looking.  Never had more than 28 walks a year.  That is extremely low.  He also gets caught stealing too many times for my liking.  He thinks he is faster on the base path than he actually is.

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

as a matter of fact, 775 OPS since May 1.

But Iggy is probably exactly the kind of player with surplus value today. His D probably plays a little better than it scores because he's always willing to try any kind of do-or-die play, he doesn't hit for power which probably means other teams will undervalue his net offense, he is streaky with the bat so probably everyone has scouting him at some time when he looked bad, and he is usually pretty good on the bases. They also do not have a near ready replacement. My guess is the Tigers can keep him at a reasonable price, and that he will yield more value to them at that price than they could hope to get in return. That is unless Avila really wants to blow it all up again this August and shoot for another top pick.

Who cares if they have a replacement this year?   It's all about 2021.    Even if they are hanging around this year.   If you can get a player you really think can be part of your 2021 team, then you go and get him.    Iggy goes - Machado goes to Short and Lugo comes up to play 2nd.  

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38 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Who cares if they have a replacement this year?   It's all about 2021.    Even if they are hanging around this year.   If you can get a player you really think can be part of your 2021 team, then you go and get him.    Iggy goes - Machado goes to Short and Lugo comes up to play 2nd.  

Indulge me, be optimistic and say 2020?   2021 seems so far away, I may be dead.

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I wouldn't give Iglesias away.  You have to believe the guy coming back can be better enough to get rid of a 1.5 - 2 WAR player that probably signs a low cost contract.

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Who cares if they have a replacement this year?   It's all about 2021.    Even if they are hanging around this year.   If you can get a player you really think can be part of your 2021 team, then you go and get him.    Iggy goes - Machado goes to Short and Lugo comes up to play 2nd.  

because you still have to play the games. Keeping guys like Iglesias is one of the reasons the team is beating up the Palehose  and there are still people here posting on these threads.

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8 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I heard Gardenhire talking about the 6 man rotation and I'm not sure I get it. To my mind, the issue is that the starters are all working short. So how does it help to add another starter, giving the starting staff even more rest and taking a roster spot while not helping the BP where all the IP stress is? Unless he thinks a starter on 6 days rest is more likely to work deeper. I rather doubt it. I think with the current Tiger staff, they have trouble the third time through the order mostly because they don't have enough stuff to show on the third trip as opposed to them being out of gas (those that clearly was in issue in the 90 deg+ games). Guys that go deeper are often good enough that they don't have to show all their pitches as much as early in a game as a Hardy or Boyd does.

I think they will utilize off days, mop up duty, and the Toledo shuttle to keep the bullpen fresh during the six man rotation period (assuming they go through with it). 

I don’t think it is a long term solution but it can work over the next three weeks. 

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26 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

I'm sure Zimmermann will get hurt again soon, so no reason to not keep Hardy stretched out

Spot on. How did I miss that?  xD

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The Tigers are 1-5 since this thread was made and are now 8 GB.  Through 78 games in 2017, the Tigers were 7 GB and only 1 game worse than they are in 2018.  If the Tigers lose today, then their records would be identical through 79 games.

But at least these Tigers are fun to watch.  

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16 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

The Tigers are 1-5 since this thread was made and are now 8 GB.  Through 78 games in 2017, the Tigers were 7 GB and only 1 game worse than they are in 2018.  If the Tigers lose today, then their records would be identical through 79 games.

But at least these Tigers are fun to watch.  

This team isn't fun to watch.  They get shut out a lot and lately have been down big early on.  They have a pathetic offense and their pitching is suspect.  The Indians series was just a bad look.

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9 minutes ago, gmoney said:

This team isn't fun to watch.  They get shut out a lot and lately have been down big early on.  They have a pathetic offense and their pitching is suspect.  The Indians series was just a bad look.

#FireAusmus

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11 hours ago, gmoney said:

This team isn't fun to watch. 

We're trying to make the most of it, since we don't go to games anymore, we find we can afford  Pizza Hut again. 

Just bought a boat too, 5 year loan. I figure the boat should be paid off about the time this team is ready to contend again. THANKS FOR THE IDEA BIG AL!!

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11 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

 then their records would be identical through 79 games.

 

Yeah, but look at the star-studded roster Bradley had to get this far.  Gardy is getting the same bang for less bux. 

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51 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Yeah, but look at the star-studded roster Bradley had to get this far.  Gardy is getting the same bang for less bux. 

We went over this before, but the main difference is the pitching.  Verlander wasn't pitching like Veralnder.  He had a 4.47 ERA at this point last year.  Daniel Norris had an ERA of 5.00. Matt Boyd had an ERA of 5.69.  Jordan Zimmermann had an ERA of 5.53.  Michael Fulmer was the only one pitching well with an ERA of 3.19.  It's hard to win a game with the starter blows it.  Even then, the Tigers only had two hitters performing at all-star levels, Alex Avila and J.D. Martinez.  

This year, several Tiger starters have been over-performing.  Matt Boyd, Francisco Liriano, and Mike Fiers are likely not as good as they were pitching and regression is going to come hard.  It's already started with Boyd.

An argument can be made that Ausmus wasn't able to squeeze as much talent from his players and Gardenhire does.  I would say they are about equal in that regard.  Gardenhire refuses to make adjustments to his lineup, keeping V-Mart in the cleanup spot and not moving up Jose Iglesias when he has been hitting.  I would argue that batting Iglesias 2nd and Goodrum lower in the lineup might have changed the outcome of today's game, although Jimenez and Greene weren't good today.  Although, Gardenhire finally put Jimenez in the 7th inning today, but he probably left him in too long (I don't know, I wasn't watching the game at that time).  The problem with Gardenhire is that he goes on auto-pilot when it comes to bullpen managing (and lineup managing).  I think Ausmus was a little more flexible with the roles, at least in 2017.  

 

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2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Everything is going swimmingly 

#tank2018

maybe in 2019 the consensus #1 will be a hitter - maybe even a SS that hits for power!

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The Tigers are playing right about as expected.

The Indians just are a better team and the past series is just one of those things.  I wouldn't read much into it one way or the other.

Moving forward, hopefully they can sell off some of the rentals and keep building up the farm.

Stay the course.

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Gardenhire's primary job is to keep things positive and helping make sure the younger players develop the habits necessary for winning and maximizing their value as players.

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30 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Gardenhire's primary job is to keep things positive and helping make sure the younger players develop the habits necessary for winning and maximizing their value as players.

Then he's doing a terrible job.

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53 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Stay the course.

Yup - this is where most orgs end up screwing up. In the waning years of Mike Ilitch's ownership it was impatience that did them in at each bad move. It was completely understandable, but it doesn't change the fact that had they been a more patient org they probably could have sustained a 85-90 win team that had a shot every year at least through the present. Well, other than Scherzer anyway - that was just some kind of pique I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How is that?

Michael Fulmer, Shane Greene, Mikie Mahtook, and James McCann all regressed from their numbers from last year.  Success stories include Joe Jimenez, Jeimer Candelario, Nick Castellanos, and JaCoby Jones (slightly).  Matt Boyd was a success story until recently, but it looks like it was a fluke.  As for as the other ones, it could just be natural progression.  

For Nick Castellanos, Gardenhire publicly called him out for his approach to hitting.  

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2018/06/24/detroit-tigers-need-nick-castellanos-produce-runs-not-walks/729021002/

There is absolutely no reason for Nick to change his approach.  What he is doing is working and Gardenhire is ignoring analytics once again and imposing his old school ways.  If he's not careful, he's going to ruin his progress.  

As for keeping things positive, I guess he can take credit for the rally goose.  

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yup - this is where most orgs end up screwing up. In the waning years of Mike Ilitch's ownership it was impatience that did them in at each bad move. It was completely understandable, but it doesn't change the fact that had they been a more patient org they probably could have sustained a 85-90 win team that had a shot every year at least through the present. Well, other than Scherzer anyway - that was just some kind of pique I guess.

Scherzer walking was the beginning of the end.

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21 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Michael Fulmer, Shane Greene, Mikie Mahtook, and James McCann all regressed from their numbers from last year.  Success stories include Joe Jimenez, Jeimer Candelario, Nick Castellanos, and JaCoby Jones (slightly).  Matt Boyd was a success story until recently, but it looks like it was a fluke.  As for as the other ones, it could just be natural progression.  

For Nick Castellanos, Gardenhire publicly called him out for his approach to hitting.  

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2018/06/24/detroit-tigers-need-nick-castellanos-produce-runs-not-walks/729021002/

There is absolutely no reason for Nick to change his approach.  What he is doing is working and Gardenhire is ignoring analytics once again and imposing his old school ways.  If he's not careful, he's going to ruin his progress.  

As for keeping things positive, I guess he can take credit for the rally goose.  

McCann is largely the same player.  His RHP and LHP split is evident as ever, a little worse on both sides plus a few more AB against RHP.  Mahtook is a AAAA player.  Greene is anything but consistent and hasn't been that bad and is better than any season in his career other than last season.

Fulmer is worse and is concerning, but he is a low K pitcher.  Which means he will be more subject to the vagaries of BABIP and flyball/HR rate than most pitchers.

This all presumes Gardenhire is the reason for performance changes, which he almost certainly is not.

Gardenhire is not analytic based, he will say non analytic things.  I am not worried about Nick, frankly.

I have no idea if he is keeping things positive, but I don't get a sense he is losing the clubhouse by any means.

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