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DumberAndLeaner

After 72 games

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After 72 games in 2017, the Detroit Tigers were  32-40 ( .444) and were in 5th place, 7.5 games out of first place.

After 72 games in 2018, the Detroit Tigers are 35-37 ( .486) in second place 2.5 games behind the under performing Indians.

The 2017 Tigers had the benefit of services from such stars as JD Martinez, Justin Upton, Justin Verlander, and Ian Kinsler, not to mention the expert management of analytics savvy Brad Ausmus

while the 2018 Tigers must make do with old-skool  Ron and a greatly reduced payroll, but of course, they have the benefit of the goose!

Gardenhire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ausmus.  🎯

But Gardenhire has a tremendous challenge ahead of him, he's got only about a month to get this team OUT  of contention so that the Tigers fanbase will not feel betrayed when the Tigers deal the few players they have left having trade value at the non-waiver deadline.

Nice knowing you Nick, Michael,  Jose, and Shane   ....best wishes

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Ausmus will be remembered by me as the worst Tiger manager in my lifetime.

As a manager ..Ausmustard.

 

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Through 73 games in 2017, the Tigers scored 347 runs and allowed 367. Through 73 games in 2018, the Tigers have scored 305 runs and allowed 328. Biggest difference is the pitching. 

Not only did the Tigers change managers, but they also changed pitching coaches. I think Chris Bosio deserves at least a little bit of credit. 

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I don't believe Iglesias has much trade value at all.  A poor hitting SS surely won't have teams beating down the door to trade for him.  He may be packaged with another player though.

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2 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

Ausmus will be remembered by me as the worst Tiger manager in my lifetime.

As a manager ..Ausmustard.

 

Luis Pujols anyone?

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12 minutes ago, gmoney said:

I don't believe Iglesias has much trade value at all.  A poor hitting SS surely won't have teams beating down the door to trade for him.  He may be packaged with another player though.

Expensive players are rarely packaged. 

Iggy doesn't have trade value because nobody needs a SS

But, someone will add him because he's a good backup/defensive replacement especially if your team SS/3rd aren't that defensively strong

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5 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Expensive players are rarely packaged. 

Iggy doesn't have trade value because nobody needs a SS

But, someone will add him because he's a good backup/defensive replacement especially if your team SS/3rd aren't that defensively strong

Much as he's grown on me he's not part of the rebuild so take anything for him.   

I think one reason the Tigers are contemplating a 6 man rotation to the AS break is trade value.   They could offer some choices:  Liriano if he's healthy again, Fiers, even Hardy?  Someone taking JZ  for anything is asking too much.  If starting pitching brings a premium for some reason they could have a bonanza.

 

 

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2018 pitching  >>>>>>>>>>>> 2017 pitching. 

That is the main reason they are doing better than expected.  

I will give credit to whoever is making that happen - whether it be the manager, the pitching coach or the players themselves. 

And I am not talking about trades when they are still just 2 1/2 games out.    

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32 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

Luis Pujols anyone?

As much as I hate to say it, Trammell was worse too.  He is somebody who visibly could not manage personalities.  He had some huge douchebags to deal with like Young and Pudge and psycho Urbina, but that is the manager's job.  That doesn't take anything away from his Hall of Fame career.  He is still on my very short  list of all-time favorites, but he wasn't cut out to be a manager.    

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8 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

As much as I hate to say it, Trammell was worse too.  He is somebody who visibly could not manage personalities.  He had some huge douchebags to deal with like Young and Pudge and psycho Urbina, but that is the manager's job.  That doesn't take anything away from his Hall of Fame career.  He is still on my very short  list of all-time favorites, but he wasn't cut out to be a manager.    

I remember that day that his hiring was announced, with Gibson as bench coach, and thinking that they got it backwards.  Trammell would be the first to tell you that Gibson was the leader of the '84 team because of his playing style and because he wasn't shy about calling people out, rudely and profanely, in the clubhouse.

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Castellanos will be eligible for a big payday before the timeframe for the rebuild runs it's course, so I think the Tigers will "sell high" while they can. Note that Avila just today side stepped a question seeking him to commit on making Nick a foundation for the rebuild.

If Shane Green keeps on a decent clip, I think he'll be able to arbitrate more money than the organization wants to spend for the time being, so that's why I think he's a goner  too.

Iggy, they'll pitch just  to save the money

And Fulmer, I just really think they'll trade him because he too might be able to command some good arb money before the organization is again ready to spend....."cheap to keep" seems to be the mantra these days, and Michael might be seen as a threat to that.

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Little blurb from an Athletic story:

 

Quote

For years, the Tigers’ roster could have been described as an attempt to win a home run derby. They had a lot of power but struggled to go beyond station-to-station when that power failed to show up. That’s why so many Tigers teams could bat for average and on-base percentage but struggled to get runners home so often “TTBDNS” — “Tigers threaten but do not score” — became a social media joke.

Last year, for instance, Detroit ranked last in baseball in Fangraphs’ BsR (baserunning) statistic, described as turning “stolen bases, caught stealings and all other base running plays (taking extra bases, being thrown out on the bases, etc) into runs above and below average.” The Tigers were 20 runs below average at the end of the year. That was the second time in three years they were the worst in the league.

Don’t blame former manager Brad Ausmus for that, either — not that he helped matters. Ausmus inherited a team that finished last in the stat in 2013 as well.

This season, the Tigers rank first in the American League, second overall, with 7.3 BsR, more than two runs better than the AL’s second-best team, Cleveland. 

You can give credit to just about any regular in the lineup other than Victor Martinez, John Hicks and James McCann, the only three posting negative numbers right now.

In short, stronger baserunning is making up for shortcomings in power, and making the most of the team’s offense.

 

Pay $ite

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How much could the rally goose net in trade?

It should net a couple lottery tickets but Avila is probably better off just getting the draft compensation when the Goose flies elsewhere. 

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22 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

Little blurb from an Athletic story:

 

Pay $ite

 

 

But the team's offense is not better than last year.  It is their pitching and defense that is better, remarkably better.  Without the vastly improved run prevention. all the speed, and small ball and grittiness would be useless.   

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30 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

But the team's offense is not better than last year.  It is their pitching and defense that is better, remarkably better.  Without the vastly improved run prevention. all the speed, and small ball and grittiness would be useless.   

No question though that Avila is building a different kind of team than DD did and if/when they get better they still won't look like one of Dombrowski's teams. I wonder if Avila succeeds in building a lower power/higher finesse offense that makes it to the playoffs if that will play better or worse. OTOH, against playoff teams, HRs are better because it's harder to string hits together off of playoff caliber pitching, but OTOH, if a series is played in cooler weather as the playoffs often are, the HRs can go away leaving you no offense.

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24 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

But the team's offense is not better than last year.  It is their pitching and defense that is better, remarkably better.  Without the vastly improved run prevention. all the speed, and small ball and grittiness would be useless.   

They cover other aspects in the article including the defense.   I quoted only the speed portion because it was most interesting to me and fair use, etc.   Notwithstanding some blundering yesterday the base running has made watching the team more enjoyable.

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14 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

 

I think one reason the Tigers are contemplating a 6 man rotation to the AS break is trade value.   They could offer some choices:  Liriano if he's healthy again, Fiers, even Hardy?  Someone taking JZ  for anything is asking too much.  If starting pitching brings a premium for some reason they could have a bonanza.

I heard Gardenhire talking about the 6 man rotation and I'm not sure I get it. To my mind, the issue is that the starters are all working short. So how does it help to add another starter, giving the starting staff even more rest and taking a roster spot while not helping the BP where all the IP stress is? Unless he thinks a starter on 6 days rest is more likely to work deeper. I rather doubt it. I think with the current Tiger staff, they have trouble the third time through the order mostly because they don't have enough stuff to show on the third trip as opposed to them being out of gas (those that clearly was in issue in the 90 deg+ games). Guys that go deeper are often good enough that they don't have to show all their pitches as much as early in a game as a Hardy or Boyd does.

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27 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

No question though that Avila is building a different kind of team than DD did and if/when they get better they still won't look like one of Dombrowski's teams. I wonder if Avila succeeds in building a lower power/higher finesse offense that makes it to the playoffs if that will play better or worse. OTOH, against playoff teams, HRs are better because it's harder to string hits together off of playoff caliber pitching, but OTOH, if a series is played in cooler weather as the playoffs often are, the HRs can go away leaving you no offense.

You need some power in today's game and if you are going to depend on a high finesse offense, you better make sure you have outstanding pitching from top to bottom.  

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21 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

You need some power in today's game and if you are going to depend on a high finesse offense, you better make sure you have outstanding pitching from top to bottom.  

Avila's top picks have all been pitchers, so he seems on board there.

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15 hours ago, tiger337 said:

2018 pitching  >>>>>>>>>>>> 2017 pitching. 

That is the main reason they are doing better than expected.  

I will give credit to whoever is making that happen - whether it be the manager, the pitching coach or the players themselves. 

And I am not talking about trades when they are still just 2 1/2 games out.    

It is a delicate balance..regarding trades.  When do you start thinking about doing it or not doing it?  Noway we do it if we are 2 out at the deadline, but do they dare go out and try to add someone or do they just roll with what got them there and see what happens?

Some people will be pissed no matter what they do.  You will have the crowd that says they should have got what they could for the guys worth anything even if they were 2 games out...and you will get the side that is pissed they gave up 2 games out.  Stand pat and miss the playoffs and both sides will have an argument.

If we are 2 games out at the deadline I say keep what you got and see what happens.  Even if the Indians are under performing and we are over performing.  Just get in baby.  Crazier things have happened then an under performing, out of nowhere team making a good run in the playoffs.

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I'd have no problem buying at the deadline if and only if the players we get are guys that can help us down the road, not just this year.  I don't want to try to trade for rentals or veterans that will likely be terrible in a couple years.  

Of course players that I'm talking about don't get traded at the deadline that often but if there is such a player(s) we could acquire I'd be fine with it.  

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14 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Castellanos will be eligible for a big payday before the timeframe for the rebuild runs it's course, so I think the Tigers will "sell high" while they can. Note that Avila just today side stepped a question seeking him to commit on making Nick a foundation for the rebuild.

If Shane Green keeps on a decent clip, I think he'll be able to arbitrate more money than the organization wants to spend for the time being, so that's why I think he's a goner  too.

Iggy, they'll pitch just  to save the money

And Fulmer, I just really think they'll trade him because he too might be able to command some good arb money before the organization is again ready to spend....."cheap to keep" seems to be the mantra these days, and Michael might be seen as a threat to that.

Take away that brutally cold April and Iggy is hitting close to .300 with outstanding defense.    Someone could probably use him. 

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