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Johan Franzen is still struggling.....

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I must admit, everytime I see that there has been a new post to this thread I shudder for a second, thinking that if I open the link I might read news that he has committed suicide.

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19 hours ago, lordstanley said:

I must admit, everytime I see that there has been a new post to this thread I shudder for a second, thinking that if I open the link I might read news that he has committed suicide.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw this thread on top.   For all the idiot radio callers that complain about his contract - The Wings and Franzen never saw something like this coming,  how could they?    I wonder how many other ex players in the contact sports have similar problems and are too ashamed to come forward.   Kudos to him to putting a face on it.   Other players need to see this and see what's happened to Joe Murphy to understand how bad this is.    

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

That's exactly what I thought when I saw this thread on top.   For all the idiot radio callers that complain about his contract - The Wings and Franzen never saw something like this coming,  how could they?    I wonder how many other ex players in the contact sports have similar problems and are too ashamed to come forward.   Kudos to him to putting a face on it.   Other players need to see this and see what's happened to Joe Murphy to understand how bad this is.    

I have a acquaintance that I'd see a few times a year, really bright engaging guy. Was about sixty in good health when he konked himself on the head pretty hard but not enough that he took a lot of notice of it at the time. It's been a downhill slide about 3 years now. First a year of all the 'regular' physical concussion symptoms - they mostly cleared but the personality shift has now appeared and is getting worse, such that he is separating from a lot of his support. When you see what the effects of even a single concussion can be, it's all the more amazing that so many contact sport athletes tolerate as much as they do so well.

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:19 AM, drownwithyou said:

Then Franzén speaks about how much his wife Cicilia has meant to him and that he doesn't understand how she can still be around him, how she has not left him yet.

I can't stop thinking about this and it is heartbreaking 😭

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On 5/28/2018 at 9:52 PM, Motor City Sonics said:

He's actually at the top brain rehab center in the country in Colorado.    My friend Christine's husband Dave was just there.  He was the cop that got hit by a car a few months ago.   We always knew Franzen's issues were serious, but it doesn't sound like it's getting much better.   Best of luck to him. 

 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/05/28/johan-franzen-nhl-head-injuries-wife/649351002/

Small World.  I met Dave several months ago with his brother.  Can't say much more because of HIPAA, but amazing guy and wonderful family.  So damn sad and senseless.  

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2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Chelios says in an interview today on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast that Babcock gave Franzen a nervous breakdown.

 

Nice to know Kenny H had the big jerk's back. First rule for any GM should be to realize that good players are more important than coaches.

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no offense, but toughen up buttercup.

this "he was mean to me" thing that happens in 2019 is very....2019.  so what?  this isnt kids hockey, its the nhl.  be a man.

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39 minutes ago, Buddha said:

no offense, but toughen up buttercup.

this "he was mean to me" thing that happens in 2019 is very....2019.  so what?  this isnt kids hockey, its the nhl.  be a man.

If Franzen was just some dip**** cocky kid who was dogging it the year might make a difference.

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16 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

If Franzen was just some dip**** cocky kid who was dogging it the year might make a difference.

why?

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46 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

?? Do you think Franzen's problems have been that he wasn't man enough?

Yeah..................you know the condition he's in now.............he's that way because of what he did for the team.     

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

?? Do you think Franzen's problems have been that he wasn't man enough?

i think the condition he is now has to do with him being hit in the head and has nothing to do with mike babcock being mean to him.

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as anyone rises the ladder in corporate america or to the top of your profession in sports or any other business, the standards get tougher and the criticism for failure gets higher.

try competing in big law or big finance.  the people who are your bosses dont take the failure to achieve absolute victory lightly.  if you cant take being chewed out or questioned by your boss, you should go back to a profession or possession where things dont matter as much.  that way no one will yell at you or make you feel bad.

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24 minutes ago, Buddha said:

as anyone rises the ladder in corporate america or to the top of your profession in sports or any other business, the standards get tougher and the criticism for failure gets higher.

try competing in big law or big finance.  the people who are your bosses dont take the failure to achieve absolute victory lightly.  if you cant take being chewed out or questioned by your boss, you should go back to a profession or possession where things dont matter as much.  that way no one will yell at you or make you feel bad.

what is the time line here? The question is whether Babcock is berating an obviously already damaged Franzen which is what Chelios seemed to me to be saying. That take may certainly be incorrect.

However, as to being yelled at,  I generally found the higher up the food chain you went it was much more silent knifings than yelling and screaming - though screamers do sort of distribute randomly everywhere. I thinks it's an odd thing. I'm not sure it has so much to do with tougher criticism or higher levels -  being yelled at is something you best learn to cope with as a child. If you manage to grow up confident in a rowdy, boisterous environment I think you are likely to become an adult that can shrug off most any type of verbal abuse. If you did not, I think many (most?) adults can never get used to dealing with it as adults.

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19 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

what is the time line here? The question is whether Babcock is berating an obviously already damaged Franzen which is what Chelios seemed to me to be saying. That take may certainly be incorrect.

However, as to being yelled at,  I generally found the higher up the food chain you went it was much more silent knifings than yelling and screaming - though screamers do sort of distribute randomly everywhere. I thinks it's an odd thing. I'm not sure it has so much to do with tougher criticism or higher levels -  being yelled at is something you best learn to cope with as a child. If you manage to grow up confident in a rowdy, boisterous environment I think you are likely to become an adult that can shrug off most any type of verbal abuse. If you did not, I think many (most?) adults can never get used to dealing with it as adults.

If Franzen was that damaged that Babcock yelling at him was that traumatizing, he should have retired right there.

Look, I'm sympathetic to Franzen's plight in being injured, but this is the NHL, if you can't hack it anymore you need to leave.

And as for the effects of climbing the ladder, I've found that the higher you get, the expectations on you get higher and higher.  Even when **** isn't your fault, if something goes wrong or the optimal outcome is not achieved, its your fault.  And certain individuals will hold you accountable for it even if it wasn't your fault.  Because at that level, the only thing that matters is winning and profit.

I'm sure the same thing happens at the very top level of pro sports.  If anyone can't handle it, then the coach loses his job.  If you can't handle being yelled at, it's time to hang it up and go coach kids hockey.  No offense to Franzen, but this is the big boy league, you're going to get berated from time to time.

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Franzen isn't suing Babcock or saying that he should be jailed. He isn't even saying that Babcock should never work again. He's just saying that he thinks Babcock is a ***** who made his life miserable. He has the right to say that. I've had bosses or clients berate me and I took it, but doesn't mean I had to like it or respect it.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2019/12/02/detroit-red-wings-johan-franzen-mike-babcock-worst-person/2590915001/

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12 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Franzen isn't suing Babcock or saying that he should be jailed. He isn't even saying that Babcock should never work again. He's just saying that he thinks Babcock is a ***** who made his life miserable. He has the right to say that. I've had bosses or clients berate me and I took it, but doesn't mean I had to like it or respect it.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2019/12/02/detroit-red-wings-johan-franzen-mike-babcock-worst-person/2590915001/

Cause he yelled at him during a playoff game?  

Is everyone going to have a problem with any coach like that now?  Bo?  Lombardi?  Any of those coaches from the 60s and 70s?

Honest question, but do we have an issue we coaches at the top level yelling at players in the heat of a high level competition?  

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

Cause he yelled at him during a playoff game?  

Is everyone going to have a problem with any coach like that now?  Bo?  Lombardi?  Any of those coaches from the 60s and 70s?

Honest question, but do we have an issue we coaches at the top level yelling at players in the heat of a high level competition?  

if nothing else it is pointless and ineffective to yell and scream at a person with TBE and if nothing else the episode demonstrates that Babcock was neither competent to recognize what was in front of him and had nothing useful to offer to the player as a coach. That is probably indictment enough.

I guess the other thing I would go back to is that Chelios has been around the block a few times - if Chris says  something is 'the worst I've ever seen" it's probably something at a level beyond the normal range of "coach rant".

I remember when the Wings hired Babcock he had already left a lot of bad feeling behind him in LA, but you chalk that up to coaches finding guys' pressure points just like Scotty used to, but it does sound like as he's gotten older Babcock has started losing the other coaching skills he must have had that made putting up with the ranting worthwhile. I was  surprised he got bounced in Toronto that fast.

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Franzen's not the only one to say these things about Babcock... Mike Commodore is another. And there were always the rumors that guys wouldn't come here.

Commodore specifically said that it wasn't about being tough or hard as a coach, he likes that, but it's the way he goes about it and the way he treats people, even off ice people. 

In the same podcast series that I heard Commodore they talked to Chelios a few months ago and they brought up Babcock and he just kind of snickered... like "I'm not going there..." but now that Babcock is not coaching maybe he felt it was ok to go off now... 

I don't think the reactions are because "players today are soft".  There reaches a point where it becomes a theme.  

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There's a line between being tough and being an *******.  There's nothing wrong with encouraging toughness and criticizing when warranted.  Being an ******* for *******'s sake is not effective leadership, and Babcock seems to lean in that direction.

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Oddly enough, the most damning thing I heard about Babcock came from Don Cherry on Coach's Corner a few months back.

It pertained to Spezza not being dressed for the Leafs home opener after he took less to join his hometown Leafs for (ostensibly) his final season, and had a large number of family and friends in attendance.

They kicked it around a bit and Don said obviously the coach gets the final say, but he said, with conviction, he thought Mike was cruel for having done that.

The word choice struck me.  I know it's just a word, and Don uses words differently than I so I probably am reading too much into it, but it made me think.

I don't think I have ever described someone's (I knew at least) actions to have been cruel, but taking it in (as well as other stuff surrounding Babcock), I think that word fits.

How one feels about a high level coach being cruel is up to the individual.  I'm not passing judgement on that.  But I think it a fair descriptor.

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59 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How one feels about a high level coach being cruel is up to the individual.  I'm not passing judgement on that.  But I think it a fair descriptor.

and the beatings will continue until morale improves!

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