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drownwithyou

2018 - Red Wings Offseason

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It has nothing to do with anything, but Matt Millen was thought to have an extremely high football IQ when he played.

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I'm mildly surprised people wouldn't be excited about any possibility of Yzerman coming back, and especially saying he had pieces in place inferring he didn't build this roster.  Of their top 20 scorers this season, 3 of them weren't acquired by Yzerman in some way.  Their Vezina finalist goaltender was drafted under Yzerman.  Of the top 8 defensemen in average time on ice this past season, only 1 wasn't acquired by Yzerman.  Their roster's average age is two years younger than the Wings and they had slightly more cap space to end the season.  They have a few intriguing prospects in the minors even with young talent contributing in the NHL already.  I've been really impressed with the roster he was able to put together, and he seems to have been able to find good value in trades and undrafted free agent signings to supplement his roster construction.  Sure it is nice when you have a Stamkos and Hedman to start, but I think he's done a great job to make sure he surrounds them with a great roster.  He handled the Drouin situation perfectly (man Sergachev looks good too) and was able to keep Stamkos and Hedman in town long term.

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9 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It has nothing to do with anything, but Matt Millen was thought to have an extremely high football IQ when he played.

I'm not as taken with Yzerman over his hockey IQ, lots of players haven't been able to translate that - Millen being a great example. I like Yzerman because of what he accomplished in an unlikely place (Tampa), from the basically rave reviews he got in all the national team manager activities he was involved in before the Lightning,  but most of all,  because Steve Yzerman is simply one of the most driven to win people ever born on the planet. I am pretty confident (as much as one ever is about people at a disatance) that the same drive made him open and willing to remake his game as an already top player, will drive him to keep learning and excelling at what ever skills he needs to become a great GM.

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7 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

the same drive made him open and willing to remake his game as an already top player, will drive him to keep learning and excelling at what ever skills he needs to become a great GM.

Obviously one can't know this, but as has been observed in many places, the best predictor for future behavior is past behavior.

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i dont follow hockey that much anymore, but i would be pretty excited about yzerman coming back.

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I think there's fear by some of Yzerman "tainting his legacy" if he comes back to Detroit and that fear may be overblown. I think most fans can compartmentalize.  Willie Mays with the Mets, Bobby Orr with the Blackhawks,  Trammell managing a horrible Tigers team and Gretzky making a mess of the Coyotes were all cringeworthy at the time but I'm not sure darkens one memories of them all that much. Yzerman  would need to be worse than ineffective with the Wings for that to happen, he'd need to be crooked or a jerk.

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13 hours ago, lordstanley said:

I think there's fear by some of Yzerman "tainting his legacy" if he comes back to Detroit and that fear may be overblown. I think most fans can compartmentalize.  Willie Mays with the Mets, Bobby Orr with the Blackhawks,  Trammell managing a horrible Tigers team and Gretzky making a mess of the Coyotes were all cringeworthy at the time but I'm not sure darkens one memories of them all that much. Yzerman  would need to be worse than ineffective with the Wings for that to happen, he'd need to be crooked or a jerk.

And that is not very likely. Yzerman has already proven much more than Trammell  or Gretzky ever did before they stepped into those management roles. With the fan support (read as revenue) and ownership support available in Det plus the "orig 6" appeal to (at least some) players, how can one argue that he could do any worse than he has done in Tampa?

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On 5/16/2018 at 2:24 PM, drownwithyou said:

I'm mildly surprised people wouldn't be excited about any possibility of Yzerman coming back, and especially saying he had pieces in place inferring he didn't build this roster.  Of their top 20 scorers this season, 3 of them weren't acquired by Yzerman in some way.  Their Vezina finalist goaltender was drafted under Yzerman.  Of the top 8 defensemen in average time on ice this past season, only 1 wasn't acquired by Yzerman.  Their roster's average age is two years younger than the Wings and they had slightly more cap space to end the season.  They have a few intriguing prospects in the minors even with young talent contributing in the NHL already.  I've been really impressed with the roster he was able to put together, and he seems to have been able to find good value in trades and undrafted free agent signings to supplement his roster construction.  Sure it is nice when you have a Stamkos and Hedman to start, but I think he's done a great job to make sure he surrounds them with a great roster.  He handled the Drouin situation perfectly (man Sergachev looks good too) and was able to keep Stamkos and Hedman in town long term.

Great, he's built a team,  and handled every situation perfectly, but he's still been there 8 years and hasn't won a Stanley Cup. In Tampa, he had the freedom to rid his team of older stars with big contracts, like Lacavalier and St. Louis.  Would he have that same option in Detroit?  Not to mention all the "character guys" like Helm, Glendening, Abby, etc.  He "only" had a #1 Center and a #1 Defenseman in Tampa, does Detroit even have a Top #4 defenseman?

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Yzerman and I don't love Holland, but the Wings are going on 10 years without a Cup and Holland is a goat, and Yzerman is the hero.  He may yet win a Cup with Tampa, but he may also be the next Vancouver or San Jose.

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I think Yzerman absolutely would be allowed to create the team as he saw fit in the hypothetical.

The fact he didn't win a cup means relatively little to me.  He absolutely built a team capable of winning the Stanley cup.  That is all a GM can do.  There were lots of years the Wings did not win a cup despite being really good.

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Are Tigers fans happy that Dave Dombrowski built some good teams capable of winning the World Series?  Sure 2006 was great after going through '03, but after a time it's not enough just to be a contender year after year and not win it all.  I don't recall in 96 anyone thinking, hey, it's okay we didn't win the Cup, because we had a really good team.  Had they never won the Cup, Yzerman wouldn't be thought of in the same light as he is now.  

Many teams that are really good don't win it all.  That's why the coaches, GMs and players that do win it all are held in such high regard. 

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The 2018 Capitals remind me of the 1997 Red Wings. High-flying teams in seasons past that got bounced from the playoffs, flew under the radar this year with a regular season only decent by their standards, faced adversity in the 1st round, eliminated their nemesis Penguins like the Wings did with the Avs, playing with utter intensity.

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Overall I was happy with the Tiger teams under Dombroski's watch even though they didn't win a World Series and it was mismanaged letting Scherzer walk onwards.

And yes, a team at some point has to win a championship, but my point is it isn't fair or reasonable to lay it all, or even mostly, on the doorstep of the GM.  The GM puts the team together, then it is largely in the hands of the coach and players.

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outside of an obvious area of deficiency, like a bad goalie or unable to get a certain type of player, I don't know what else a GM is supposed to do in hockey.  If you consistently go far in the playoffs then after that it's up to the coach and players... hockey is a sport centered around flukes and luck more than other sports. 

If you wanted to find fault with DD and the Tigers it would be the consistent lack of a quality bullpen.  Other than that he built the team that made the playoffs.

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Holland has signed several mediocre players to long term and overpaid contracts which impacts the ability of the club to gather pieces needed to compete. He’s definitely part of the reason why the Wings are in quasi-Dead Things mode right now. 

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21 hours ago, Kacie said:

Great, he's built a team,  and handled every situation perfectly, but he's still been there 8 years and hasn't won a Stanley Cup.

Unless he's getting on the ice to win the games for the team, I'll take my team's gm building a great team even if they don't win the cup, but that's just me.  It's tough to win a cup.  I'd rather a gm at least put the team in a position to win it over whatever Holland has been doing.

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32 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I'd trust Yzerman on the ice more than Holland anyway.

Holland would probably be an even better tank commander in net that Coreau, I think the Wings should try it.  Bring me Jack Hughes!

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Dallas is hiring Nelson away from Grand Rapids to assistant coach in the NHL.  I wish the Wings would have kept him around.

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:54 AM, drownwithyou said:

Dallas is hiring Nelson away from Grand Rapids to assistant coach in the NHL.  I wish the Wings would have kept him around.

But has Nelson done much in GR to prove he could benefit the Wings at the NHL level or even be any better than Blashill?

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2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

But has Nelson done much in GR to prove he could benefit the Wings at the NHL level or even be any better than Blashill?

I thought he did a pretty good job with Grand Rapids with results (Calder Cup) and also I've been pleasantly surprised with how call ups have looked even if they aren't the most talented players (Bertuzzi, Hicketts--although he had a bad year last year in AHL apparently, Svechnikov, etc.).  Seems like he has the guys working hard at least.  I thought I saw that the Wings weren't bringing back one of their assistants so I figured they might have bumped him to NHL assistant.  Back in 2015 he went 17-25-9 as interim head coach of a bad Oilers team (7-19-5 prior to him) which isn't great but I think he probably did about as well as a guy could in the situation.  So I was hoping either he would stay in Grand Rapids or be an assistant with the Wings. 

I figured they wouldn't get rid of Blashill, in a rebuild you don't just fire the lowest paid (at least of reported salaries) coach in the league!

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I don't think the '97 Wings flew under the radar at all. Once they acquired Shanny, the bar was set pretty high because they had that consistently productive power forward they lacked with Primeau.   I thought they were going to win the Cup the night McCarty beat up Lemieux.  They showed a willingness to stick up for one another that night that had been lacking before.

At some point...you have to win a title.  I enjoyed rooting for the Dombrowski era Tigers, but I'll take that 84 era team that flamed out and didn't have the sustained success because they managed to put it all together that one season.

I don't think we'll see Yzerman here unless he's back once Kenny finally retires.  The more likely scenario is Kenny takes the Devellano role and Draper takes over as GM

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My recollection is that the team went pedal to the metal during the regular season the year before and then fell short in the playoffs.  Scotty then put less emphasis on the regular season and the President's trophy and more on getting ready and having a fresher team for the playoffs.  The 96-97 team was still top five overall at the beginning of the playoffs and were definitely considered a threat to win it all.

 

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They were borderline lethargic at times and had they not won the cup, my contention is:

a. Few to none would have been surprised, and

b. The McCarty fight wouldn't be remembered.

 

In any event, I don't think Scotty knowingly kept the foot off the gas in the regular season.  Also Mike Vernon was non-descript to bad in the regular season and then got hot in the play-offs. 

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46 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:
1 hour ago, Lei Pong said:

My recollection is that the team went pedal to the metal during the regular season the year before and then fell short in the playoffs.  Scotty then put less emphasis on the regular season and the President's trophy and more on getting ready and having a fresher team for the playoffs.  The 96-97 team was still top five overall at the beginning of the playoffs and were definitely considered a threat to win it all.

 

I don't know if was so much they played harder or not, I think the early teams in the run were too finesse for the playoffs. They were able to dominate the regular season but when the officiating got more liberal in the playoffs they could be put off their game. The changes to make the team a little tougher made them a more capable playoff team but somewhat less dominant regular season team. 

As an aside, the tendency of the NHL to collectively swallow its whistle in the playoffs in those days is something that really put me off the game in the past. Don't see why you should have rewarded a different style of play in the regular season vs the playoffs.

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