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The Tigers Hitting Thread

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25 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

At what point does the team stop revolving around Cabrera?  I want the Candy Man to be happy.  

good point. Unless Miguel straightens himself out it's Jeimer's and Nick's team going forward - and Nick might be gone. In fact at the rate he is going, Miguel is going to end up like ARod in his last years in NY - the guy everyone wished would just go away. He needs to turn it around if he wants to collect the rest that contract without become an a focus of fan anger.

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Cabrera is having a nice bounce back season. The home runs have not been there, but he does have 11 doubles to go with his three homers in only 37 games. His wRC+ is 128. 

Rumor is that Greiner is being called up Tuesday, which would indicate that Hicks as backup catcher may be going away. We could be seeing them reducing victor’s role here pretty soon, with Hicks and Cabrera getting some time at DH. 

If that comes to pass, then victor’s roster spot would become the one that Stewart would take once he is ready. 

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26 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Cabrera is having a nice bounce back season. The home runs have not been there, but he does have 11 doubles to go with his three homers in only 37 games. His wRC+ is 128. 

Rumor is that Greiner is being called up Tuesday, which would indicate that Hicks as backup catcher may be going away. We could be seeing them reducing victor’s role here pretty soon, with Hicks and Cabrera getting some time at DH. 

If that comes to pass, then victor’s roster spot would become the one that Stewart would take once he is ready. 

Cabrera seemed to be on pace to have a good season in April, but since he came back from the hamstring he has shown  very little in 47PA  - no HR, 662 OPS and no XBH in the last two series with 4 of 9 total bases being walks.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

That's a pretty front-loaded batting line, though.  Christn Stewart is batting .258/.340/.366 since May 15, and in AAA, not the majors, and with a BABIP of .344 during that time.  That's not going to be enough to kick Victor to the curb, money or no.

Victor Martinez is batting .231/.290/.297 since May 9.  So I do think it's good enough to kick Martinez to the curb.  

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Nobody cares about kicking Victor to the curb. There's no desperation to win games at the major league level. So you can patchwork the DH spot. Bring up Stewart when he is more passable in the outfield. 

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

I think you may be overestimating the ticket buying emotional tigers fan base and their relationship to victor. 

 I’m with you though. I would be happy if they cut him. I’m also happy if they keep him. It’s the least of my concerns with this tigers team. I think gardenhire and Avila understand the emotional ramifications on the clubhouse in keeping him or releasing him. I’m quite content to make the appeal to authority logical fallacy here. 

I'm not the Tigers, so it's not what I might be overestimating. It's what I perceive the Tigers might be viewing things. I'm just guessing, based on what I remember from my marketing days.

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11 minutes ago, kdog said:

Nobody cares about kicking Victor to the curb. There's no desperation to win games at the major league level. So you can patchwork the DH spot. Bring up Stewart when he is more passable in the outfield. 

Not to mention waiting to see whether he has gotten to the point in AAA where his hitting has earned him a call up. As mentioned earlier, he has slowed down recently. 

I think the end of July is a fair target for when he could be called up, especially given that some spots could open up due to trades or whatever. Even a trade of Iglesias would open a roster spot. The obvious scenario would be trading Martin and sliding jacoby to CF and opening up left field. Or castellanos of course. 

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28 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Victor Martinez is batting .231/.290/.297 since May 9.  So I do think it's good enough to kick Martinez to the curb.  

No one is busting down the door at AAA or AA to take the DH job away from Victor, and it doesn't matter to the Tigers playoff chances if he stays or goes, since those chances are already sub-1%.

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I would think that Victor and his contract aren't good for marketing/ticket sales because it reminds people of the bloat and missed opps from 2011-2013. 

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I'm not the Tigers, so it's not what I might be overestimating. It's what I perceive the Tigers might be viewing things. I'm just guessing, based on what I remember from my marketing days.

Fine, then I think you are overestimating (via guessing based on your marketing days) what the tigers think about victor’s relationship with the ticket buying public. 

I don’t mean to downplay the team’s desire to market certain aspects of their team to try to generate interest and keep people coming to the park. I just don’t think the tigers believe that victor Martinez is driving any ticket sales. 

It’s anecdotal of course, but I can’t think of any promotional content that includes victor Martinez. 

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Are there stats that indicate when a hitter hits into a shift?  I swear Victor hits into the shift twice a game. If shifting handn't become a thing how many more hits or doubles would he have?

 

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There's no risk to keeping him unless you think the team has a chance to surpass Cleveland.  I'll leave that up to you to decide.

The reward is that he does find something and a team wants him.... for anything.  Even assuming what's left of his contract in July or August would be meaningful to the team.

 

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4 minutes ago, kdog said:

I would think that Victor and his contract aren't good for marketing/ticket sales because it reminds people of the bloat and missed opps from 2011-2013. 

If the Tigers agreed with that, Victor would be gone.

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11 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Are there stats that indicate when a hitter hits into a shift?  I swear Victor hits into the shift twice a game. If shifting handn't become a thing how many more hits or doubles would he have?

 

Yes, Statcast has that. I just ran a query of Victor based on balls in play against the shift, and if I am reading it right, he is hitting .284 and slugging .472 on balls in play against the shift. His xBA is .338, so his actual is 50 points lower. His wOBA is .327 with his xwOBA .385, so that's a lot lower too.

All in all, it looks like the shift is definitely hurting Victor, although I don't think you or I needed a fancy-pants query to reach that conclusion.

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2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yes, Statcast has that. I just ran a query of Victor based on balls in play against the shift, and if I am reading it right, he is hitting .284 and slugging .472 on balls in play against the shift. His xBA is .338, so his actual is 50 points lower. His wOBA is .327 with his xwOBA .385, so that's a lot lower too.

All in all, it looks like the shift is definitely hurting Victor, although I don't think you or I needed a fancy-pants query to reach that conclusion.

what amazes me about is in my seats the shifted player is right in front of us and like I said, seems like twice a game he hits a solid one hopper right to the guy. A foot either way and it could be a double.  

But I did get to see him lay one down the 3B line last year.  Theres tha.

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

At what point does the team stop revolving around Cabrera?  I want the Candy Man to be happy.  

Spot on.

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Cabrera is having a nice bounce back season. The home runs have not been there, but he does have 11 doubles to go with his three homers in only 37 games. His wRC+ is 128. 

 

Cabrera can hit well enough when healthy.  Even without the homers, he can still be productive  The problem is staying healthy.

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Cabrera can hit well enough when healthy.  Even without the homers, he can still be productive  The problem is staying healthy.

Yep. I think the tigers are realizing this and they are going to be more aggressive about pushing him to DH more often. 

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

No one is busting down the door at AAA or AA to take the DH job away from Victor, and it doesn't matter to the Tigers playoff chances if he stays or goes, since those chances are already sub-1%.

The Tigers' playoff chances shouldn't matter.  When a player stops being useful, then it's time to get rid of him.  A team shouldn't be carrying a player that produces negative value, regardless if they are a playoff team or not.  

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The 2003 team carried lots of guys who provided negative value.

Sometimes the negative value guy is the best available option at that point in time.

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The tigers should play with a 20 man roster. Forfeit the DH. Play with three infielders. Use a three man rotation. Get rid of the long man in the pen. 

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25 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

The Tigers' playoff chances shouldn't matter.  When a player stops being useful, then it's time to get rid of him.  A team shouldn't be carrying a player that produces negative value, regardless if they are a playoff team or not.  

Playoff chances can and do matter to teams when they make decisions, but you're free to believe they shouldn't.

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What was the point in getting Gardenhire then if this team isn't a playoff team?  #shouldhavekeptAusmus

Getting Gardenhire didn't improve the Tigers' chances of becoming a playoff team and Gardenhire can't mentor the young players if you keep them in AAA in favor of Victor Martinez.  

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I don't really want to live in a world where because a team obviously isn't good, there's literally no reason to ever make roster changes. 

Why not put Drew verhagen in the rotation all year? No one great can take his place and his name is kinda like Verlander 

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