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The Tigers Hitting Thread

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20 minutes ago, gmoney said:

I can appreciate that train of thought, but sitting on the bench day after day, pinch running on the oft-chance that VMart actually gets a hit in the later innings, and hitting against batting practice coaches isn't going to help improve his skills much.

I disagree.  If he isn't necessarily ready to face MLB pitching, why play him everyday and risk burning him out?  He might actually have a future if they work on certain things on the side and in pregame.  Why expose him to the possibility of bad habits if he tries to compensate the wrong way for being overmatched?

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

Point is ..as everyone is keenly aware ..Tiger hitting is terrible ..and Lloyd is the so-called hitting coach. 

It makes sense to me to 'laugh' and make fun of it ..because feel bad or sad or crying about it just ain't my style.

I think we should still be able to put blame on Brad Ausmus.  

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1 hour ago, gmoney said:

I can appreciate that train of thought, but sitting on the bench day after day, pinch running on the oft-chance that VMart actually gets a hit in the later innings, and hitting against batting practice coaches isn't going to help improve his skills much.

The Tigers probably have a better grasp on the most effective way to develop Reyes than anyone posting here.

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I agree that you don't want to throw a hitter up against pitching that overmatches him to the point he can't have enough success to tell what he is doing right from what he is doing wrong. But OTOH, it's also hard to argue that anything is worse for a young hitter than losing a season of seeing any significant PAs. If the choice is between a guy not ready sitting vs playing in the minors, that is a no brainer. I think the choice between sitting and seeing tough pitching is much less clear. Victor's K rate is <25% and he is hitting 236 in his last ~50 PA. For my money, I don't think those are numbers that say he is so overmatched that playing would not benefit him more than sitting. 

Granted that what is best for Victor isn't the only question in the mix, but at 23 you have to still be more interested in his upside than say Jones', who is already 26 and is thus less likely to improve much.

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

They probably feel he has a pretty good future, but isn't ready to contribute in Detroit and/or throwing him out there everyday would actually harm his development right now.  I am fine with them playing the long game.

I've never understood how getting experience harms your development.   I've heard that theory a lot, just don't agree with it.

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The Tigers probably have a better grasp on the most effective way to develop Reyes than anyone posting here.

So this is different than the GM's job?

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24 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The Tigers probably have a better grasp on the most effective way to develop Reyes than anyone posting here.

But the saying is, "practice makes perfect."  Not, "doing nothing makes perfect."  

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38 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

 

The Tigers probably have a better grasp on the most effective way to develop Reyes than anyone posting here.

They may or they may not.

Well, with that argument there is no reason to question anything that a person in authority ever does.

They get paid to do it...you don't so just sit down and be quiet...sorry but just because someone does it professionally does not mean they are incapable of sucking at their jobs.

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41 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I think we should still be able to put blame on Brad Ausmus.  

This is true.  Ausmus is the true root of all evil.

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14 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

But the saying is, "practice makes perfect."  Not, "doing nothing makes perfect."  

Do we really believe that Reyes is doing nothing?

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Just now, Casimir said:

Do we really believe that Reyes is doing nothing?

I would say there is basically 'nothing' you can do as a hitter that is close enough to seeing live pitching to call 'anything'

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4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Do we really believe that Reyes is doing nothing?

He's playing a lot more often then he was at the beginning of the season.  But I don't really see the point in not playing him everyday if they believe he's good enough to contribute in the future.  Not only is Gardenhire playing Gerber everyday, but he's putting him in one of the most important lineup spots, the lead-off spot.  Time to play the kids and see what they have.  You are not going to know anything if you don't play them.  

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4 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

He's playing a lot more often then he was at the beginning of the season.  But I don't really see the point in not playing him everyday if they believe he's good enough to contribute in the future.  Not only is Gardenhire playing Gerber everyday, but he's putting him in one of the most important lineup spots, the lead-off spot.  Time to play the kids and see what they have.  You are not going to know anything if you don't play them.  

I would think that the Tigers have placed more importance on the development of Reyes than either Jones or Gerber.  So if that means protecting Reyes a bit by playing Jones and Gerber every day, that's fine by me.  I don't expect much at all out of Jones or Gerber.  Let's be brutally honest, there isn't much hope for the future in Toledo either, so promoting from there isn't going to help much at all.  Maybe there is something with Reyes, that remains to be seen.

Gardenhire did mention a few weeks ago that Reyes would be getting more playing time as the season goes on.  Just because he didn't play much before doesn't mean he won't play much later on.

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

I would think that the Tigers have placed more importance on the development of Reyes than either Jones or Gerber.  So if that means protecting Reyes a bit by playing Jones and Gerber every day, that's fine by me.  I don't expect much at all out of Jones or Gerber.  Let's be brutally honest, there isn't much hope for the future in Toledo either, so promoting from there isn't going to help much at all.  Maybe there is something with Reyes, that remains to be seen.

Gardenhire did mention a few weeks ago that Reyes would be getting more playing time as the season goes on.  Just because he didn't play much before doesn't mean he won't play much later on.

I just don't understand how it would harm his development.  

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3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I just don't understand how it would harm his development.  

I could see them holding him out against top pitchers that maybe still would badly overmatch him, but given that he'd still be playing 2/3 of the time on my team.

But we may be arguing a moot point. He had over 50 PA in July after having had 68 in the 3 prior months and has played in 5 of 7 games in August already.

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So the premise is the Tigers either haven't thought about it or are too stupid to understand it 

It's hard to see the Tigers' plan right now.  Not that they don't have one, it's just hard to see it.  With Dombrowski, it was always easy to see where the Tigers were going, with Avila it looks like he's just winging it.  Not that it is necessarily a bad thing.  Dayton Moore won a World Series by winging it.  

I don't really see it as high praise to compare Al Avila with Dayton Moore.  

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So the premise is the Tigers either haven't thought about it or are too stupid to understand something so obvious.

Not so much that but that maybe they had conflicting priorities that were not working to Reyes' particular interest. They had to play Martin in order for him to have trade value; they have probably been over optimistic on JaCoby's hitting improving; clearly they can't sit Nick. 

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I could see them holding him out against top pitchers that maybe still would badly overmatch him, but given that he'd still be playing 2/3 of the time on my team.

But we may be arguing a moot point. He had over 50 PA in July after having had 68 in the 3 prior months and has played in 5 of 7 games in August already.

Just playing devil's advocate here.  Why would you hold him out against top pitchers?  Why not have him hit against them so he gains that experience?

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1 minute ago, bobrob2004 said:

It's hard to see the Tigers' plan right now.  Not that they don't have one, it's just hard to see it.  With Dombrowski, it was always easy to see where the Tigers were going, with Avila it looks like he's just winging it.  Not that it is necessarily a bad thing.  Dayton Moore won a World Series by winging it.  

I don't really see it as high praise to compare Al Avila with Dayton Moore.  

Kansas City was hardly winging it.  They simply tried to have as much talent bubble up on the cheap at the same time.  The plan was pretty easy to see.  Implementing and having it come to fruition is another thing.

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4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Just playing devil's advocate here.  Why would you hold him out against top pitchers?  Why not have him hit against them so he gains that experience?

Already stated upthread that I don't think it's very useful to play a guy beyond a level where he is at least competitive. My arg was that based on his stats, Reyes is reasonably competitive against the MLB pitching he has been seeing. But I am already assuming (possible in error!) without going through the logs that Gardenhire probably has not been sending him out there much against the best so far.

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31 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

My guess / sense of it is they don't think Reyes will gain as much from facing MLB pitching as is presumed here.

Calling the entire board presumptuous isn't the path to peace.

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How shall I express the opinion that the most likely explanation for Reyes not getting many AB is the Tigers don't think he will benefit much from it?

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