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The 2018 Detroit Tigers Season (Already In Progress)

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Sounds like Gardenhire no longer wanted to be responsible for bringing in Verhagen and having him possibly hurt someone with his wildness.

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"He almost hit two guys in the head, and that's scary," Gardenhire said after the loss. "We needed him to get a couple of outs, and it didn't work out." - beck - mlb.com

 

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If Gardenhire can convince the Tigers organization that VerHagen sucks, there is good value right there.  

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7 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Double switching is right up there with the pearl clutching over the possibility of replacing your catcher mid game out of fear that the back-up becomes injured and you are left with nobody on the bench that can catch.

“Pearl clutching” Mr. Weasley?  Are you sure that robe isn’t a dress? Ten points from Gryffindor!

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8 hours ago, tiger337 said:

If Gardenhire can convince the Tigers organization that VerHagen sucks, there is good value right there.  

The problem is Gardenhire is going to run out of pitchers if he keeps it up.

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14 minutes ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

The bench is a train wreck.

By design? ¬¬

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Quote

“I think it is too early to say that [there is a massive problem that needs addressing],” Manfred said Monday afternoon. “I really think it is too early to say that. In that group of seven, you have interesting situations that are not indicative of systemic problems over the long haul.”

Manfred noted members of the dismal seven do not fit the parameters of a tanking team. The Padres, for example, signed Eric Hosmer to the largest free-agent pact of the offseason ($144 million). The Orioles signed Alex Cobb to the third-largest pitching deal ($57 million). Manfred felt the Royals were mimicking a familiar down cycle after a successful run. The White Sox, conversely, are going through growing pains of a youth movement.

“The reality is we have very few teams’ owners who would tolerate several years of losing to get better,” Manfred said. In conjunction, Manfred said seven teams would not tank simultaneously because of “the limiting possibilities” of actually getting the first draft pick in that scenario.

NY post

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I still believe that there's a certain # of owners who, while preferring to win, are content to just make money and be a team owner.  The Astros gave them cover to do things on the cheap and sell it as rebuilding.

 

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32 minutes ago, kdog said:

The joke is that if the 'dismal seven' was based on the standings this last weekend, the Tigers weren't even counted.

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10 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I still believe that there's a certain # of owners who, while preferring to win, are content to just make money and be a team owner.  The Astros gave them cover to do things on the cheap and sell it as rebuilding.

 

At one time there were owners for whom their team was their main business. I think Charlie Findley and Bill Veeck might have been the last of them though. For those guys expenses mattered and it often was more profitable to be a team that might threaten than a front runner. Since those guy left the scene what you mostly had was billionaires buying teams who didn't care much about annual expenses because the capital appreciation rate on sports teams was so high. I'm guessing that paradigm is becoming played out and things are in flux again. Now we have more teams like the Tiger in Trusts and other complex ownership arrangements where annual expenses may be more of an issue again.

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Connie Mack famously said the most profitable team was the one that was contending up until about 3 weeks left in the season and slid back to 3rd or 4th place (8 team league) at the end of the year.

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22 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I still believe that there's a certain # of owners who, while preferring to win, are content to just make money and be a team owner.  The Astros gave them cover to do things on the cheap and sell it as rebuilding.

 

Chris Ilitch come on down!!!

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25 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

At one time there were owners for whom their team was their main business. I think Charlie Findley and Bill Veeck might have been the last of them though. For those guys expenses mattered and it often was more profitable to be a team that might threaten than a front runner. Since those guy left the scene what you mostly had was billionaires buying teams who didn't care much about annual expenses because the capital appreciation rate on sports teams was so high. I'm guessing that paradigm is becoming played out and things are in flux again. Now we have more teams like the Tiger in Trusts and other complex ownership arrangements where annual expenses may be more of an issue again.

I think in some cases, the White Sox come to mind, where not turning a profit is not an option due to minority owners being guaranteed a certain amount each year.  They can't deficit the team like Mike Ilitch allegedly did for so long.  

The other day I was leaving the Thursday game and went out a different exit than I normally do (since you may recall I was in a suite that day).  There were a lot of Comerica Park employees.  LIke 12 of them all standing there waiting to greet people.  These were professional looking employees, not like Wal Mart greeters.   My usher's been there for at least 12 years.  That got me to thinking what the cost is to on a game basis just to operate the ballpark. Forget player salaries... there's a lot of other people to pay.   Those jobs must be ok since I notice the same people year after year.  My ticket taker is a guy named Richard.  Been there a long time.  

 

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30 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Connie Mack famously said the most profitable team was the one that was contending up until about 3 weeks left in the season and slid back to 3rd or 4th place (8 team league) at the end of the year.

Ha! Of course Mr Mack didn't play in an era where you can play up to 20 playoff games.

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

I still believe that there's a certain # of owners who, while preferring to win, are content to just make money and be a team owner.  The Astros gave them cover to do things on the cheap and sell it as rebuilding.

 

I don't think Chris falls into this category. The deals referenced would not have done the Tigers much if any good. It is too soon to tell if he is willing to spend once the Tigers have built a decent core. 

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That draft video is very interesting.  I guess I had forgotten that Avila was responsible for Beckett and the Gonzalez pick in the midst of other picks that didn't pan out is pretty impressive.

Lightning in a bottle? Does Al actually know what he's doing?

BTW, how do we not really have a great handle on whether or not our GM is good at his job?!!? That seems crazy.

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12 minutes ago, thefunk said:

BTW, how do we not really have a great handle on whether or not our GM is good at his job?!!? That seems crazy.

Maybe because he and DD seem to be such polar opposites yet worked together for so long.

What parts of the old org's strengths and weaknesses were which guy?

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22 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Maybe because he and DD seem to be such polar opposites yet worked together for so long.

What parts of the old org's strengths and weaknesses were which guy?

You just really started to feel like DD was a wizard with trades.  I know there's ample evidence that he made some real clunkers, but you just got the feeling that he could always get more than you gave up. I know that's not totally true, but that's how it felt.

Avila being his underling it kind of feels like we just promoted from within out of convenience, and I'm left here wondering what he's every done to get the job.

I CANNOT WAIT to be proved a million times over that I'm an idiot as the Tigers march to a decade of dominance from 2020-2030.

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It's fair to question Avila given that the team signed Pelfrey and Aviles.   Seemed so unnecessary yet indicative of the old school mentality.

Sure they drafted some great guys over the years but do that job for 25 years isn't the law of averages in your favor?

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Maybe because he and DD seem to be such polar opposites yet worked together for so long.

What parts of the old org's strengths and weaknesses were which guy?

Considering that Avila stuck with Dombrowski for over two decades, with 13 years served as Dombo's direct second banana, I'm going to guess that loyalty is a key attribute the Ilitches value. Whether you consider that a strength or a weakness is up to your interpretation.

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17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Sure, we all miss Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer, but maybe it's time to admit that we miss Rick Porcello, too.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-best-rick-porcello-has-ever-been/

 

I always thought the Tigers handled Porcello about as badly as a team could. Jeff Jones was the 1st guy in the org, including Leyland, who had the 1st clue about how Rick should pitch and how to coach him to get there. Personally, I believe Jones saved his career.

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

It's fair to question Avila given that the team signed Pelfrey and Aviles.   Seemed so unnecessary yet indicative of the old school mentality.

Sure they drafted some great guys over the years but do that job for 25 years isn't the law of averages in your favor?

But also,  maybe Avila would have liked to have had a lot more data on a lot more players than he did when he made those two moves. But I agree Pelfrey was a reach, and  the 2nd yr was almost certainly unnecessary. The Aviles signing didn't bother me, it's hard to know what's left in an older guy's tank - sometimes getting a good year from a guy like Aviles is just a matter of luck with health. Plus Mike had a seriously sick child IIRC, so there may have been unforeseeable complications and distractions there. The amount Ausmus played him after it was clear the tank was empty was a bigger issue for me.

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Said this years ago but Porcello started out so early in his career and racked up the W's at a young age that it's not inconceivable he enters HOF discussion if he stays healthy and pitches into his late 30's.... that is if the voters still value pitching Wins at that point which they may not....

 

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