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DumberAndLeaner

Gardenhire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ausmus

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6 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

I agree with you that they should have developed Ausmus as a manager before putting him in the big chair.

But I think Gardenhire is perfect for the organization's intent right now. Gardenhire has plenty of experience working for an organization that doesn't want to add  payroll.  They know he'll make-do with no bellyaching. 

They are a perfect match in that respect.

I don't really know if it's perfect.  Gardenhire was great for Minnesota when they had an older roster.  When they decided to get younger, that's when they lost 90+ games.  It's this article that has me worried if he can develop young talent.  http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins-news/minnesota-twins/can-ron-gardenhire-develop-young-players-r2086

I really don't like how they are handling the Daniel Norris situation.  He's a starter, then he's a reliever, now he's a starter again, but wait, we're going to use him in relief.  They don't have a clear plan for him.  Is this the right thing to do with Norris?  

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29 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

, the Yankees thought highly of him that they wanted to give him an interview. 

 

Due diligence. ....Back when I used to hire and fire, I'd have to interview several candidates even if I already had my hire picked out, just to protect myself in case anyone ever came fingerpointing about favoritism. 

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33 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I don't really get the hate for Ausmus

On the MLB board ..and now on this board .. I sincerely doubt it is actual 'hate' toward Ausmus (the person) ..but rather ..a hate for what happened to the Tigers under his managerial tenure.

Absolutely no doubt that Ausmus was a bad managerial-fit for the star-laden veteran team he inherited.  The record speaks for itself.  

Perhaps Ausmus was/is better suited toward a front office job instead of as on-the-field manager.

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8 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

 

I really don't like how they are handling the Daniel Norris situation. 

Agree with you there, also.  I suspect somebody has decided he needs to face as much pitching at the major league level as possible. Hence they shuffle him around as other priorities come and go.

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1 minute ago, Tigrrfan said:

. I sincerely doubt it is actual 'hate' toward Ausmus .

Agreed, I don't hate Ausmus,  I hate the decision  to hire  him as manager.

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26 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I don't really know if it's perfect.  Gardenhire was great for Minnesota when they had an older roster.  When they decided to get younger, that's when they lost 90+ games.  It's this article that has me worried if he can develop young talent.  http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins-news/minnesota-twins/can-ron-gardenhire-develop-young-players-r2086

I really don't like how they are handling the Daniel Norris situation.  He's a starter, then he's a reliever, now he's a starter again, but wait, we're going to use him in relief.  They don't have a clear plan for him.  Is this the right thing to do with Norris?  

Norris needs a plan with a pitching coach he trusts for how to get from A --> B. He needs to retain his more controlled delivery while working out a set of mechanics that will help him recover his fast ball and more importantly, his fast ball rotation. I guess I don't care how they use him short term, the bigger question is does he have a plan to figure out a successful method of pitching whenever he is asked to do his pitching? There were comments made earlier this Spring that he isn't worried about his FB - well, he should be.

This is where I get most skeptical that this organization really understands the value of advance metrics. Everything I hear and have ever heard from the Tiger's org reflects the old 'pitching is basically magic' thinking. But pitching is not magic. A pitcher releases a ball at a certain speed at an certain angle with a certain spin, and those three things, all of which are now subject to accurate measurement determine absolutely everything about that pitch's path to the batter. Either the org just prefers to hide its light, and if that is true that is fine, but Norris is indeed a case that makes me wonder.

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17 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

And then there is the movie "Hoosiers", lol they had a good-ol-boy network full of group think just like this place....'clique'  anyone?

I am not sure what the argument is, but you know someone is losing an argument when they use the classic buzz words: "group think" and "clique".  

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11 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Agree with you there, also.  I suspect somebody has decided he needs to face as much pitching at the major league level as possible. Hence they shuffle him around as other priorities come and go.

There's no need to do the shuffling though.  It's similar to Drew Smyly in 2013.  He was a starter, everyone knew he was a starter, but there was no room in the starting rotation.  Rather then sending him to Toledo when he really belonged in the Majors, they just used him as a reliever.  And they stuck to that plan as Smyly made 0 starts that year.  The next year, they made room for him in the rotation.  That's exactly how they should be handling Norris.  

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9 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I am not sure what the argument is, but you know someone is losing an argument when they use the classic buzz words: "group think" and "clique".  

Billy Martin wouldn’t’of used the term “group think”.

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Daniel Norris .. never could understand the excessive expectations toward him.

Take away his 8 starts in 2015 for the Detroit Tigers and his MLB career #'s are:

212 IP _ 4.50 ERA _ 1.52 WHIP

I am not ready to give up on him ..as he is still only 25 years old .. plus he throws left-handed.  But I certainly do not have exceedingly high expectations for him either. 

I believe the Tigers are doing the right thing .. he is a relief pitcher who will occasionally get a spot start now and then.  

Norris' performance will ultimately determine which role he fits best.

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30 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Billy Martin wouldn’t’of used the term “group think”.

No .. Billy would have used the term "group drink".

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37 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

the classic buzz words: "group think" and "clique".  

That post was actually intended for your benefit.  You're welcome! :D

Originally I had planned to use the word "xenophobia" in place of "group think", but decided to soften it since I'm new here. 

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6 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

Daniel Norris .. never could understand the excessive expectations toward him.

Take away his 8 starts in 2015 for the Detroit Tigers and his MLB career #'s are:

 

Didn’t he finish really strong the second half of 2016? Or was that 2015?

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3 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Didn’t he finish really strong the second half of 2016? Or was that 2015?

He does have talent .. but has never shown he can sustain it over the course of a 162-game season.  As the Tigers move forward in their rebuild effort ..Daniel Norris will either succeed as a starter or as a reliever ..or perhaps not at all.  Just that at this point, ..again ..he has not proven he can consistently succeed as a full-time starter.

 

I hope he figures it out and succeeds as a starter.  But if not, ..then I hope he will succeed as a reliever. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

Daniel Norris .. never could understand the excessive expectations toward him.

Take away his 8 starts in 2015 for the Detroit Tigers and his MLB career #'s are:

212 IP _ 4.50 ERA _ 1.52 WHIP

Stuff is more meaningful than stats for young pitchers

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Based on some of your game thread posts, zenophobia might be more appropriate for you.  

38 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

That post was actually intended for your benefit.  You're welcome! :D

Originally I had planned to use the word "xenophobia" in place of "group think", but decided to soften it since I'm new here. 

 

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32 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Perhaps it's that lecture you promised me and then never followed through?

I already told you why a lecture was not necessary.  Try to keep up.  

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When I say hate for Ausmus, I don't mean him as a person. I mean his managial style, which I didn't think was much different than any other manager. 

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5 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

And then there is the movie "Hoosiers", lol they had a good-ol-boy network full of group think just like this place....'clique'  anyone?

You are free to leave at any time.

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I don’t wanna give up on Norris, he is the quintessential “trade him somewhere else and he DOMINATES for 12 years” type of dude right now. 

Keep him around as a starter and hope Bosio can’t make something happen. 

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8 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

And then there is the movie "Hoosiers", lol they had a good-ol-boy network full of group think just like this place....'clique'  anyone?

Duuuuuuuuuude.....you quote-responded to your own post.  And I’d accuse you of trying to run up your post count, but we don’t keep track of those anymore. 

Of all the ways to come at a new board, you seem to be choosing all the cringe-worthy ones.

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44 minutes ago, thefunk said:

Duuuuuuuuuude.....you quote-responded to your own post.  And I’d accuse you of trying to run up your post count, but we don’t keep track of those anymore. 

Of all the ways to come at a new board, you seem to be choosing all the cringe-worthy ones.

Weird. When did the post counts go away?

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9 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Agreed, I don't hate Ausmus,  I hate the decision  to hire  him as manager.

My worry is that the same person who kept Brad around is the same guy that we're trusting to trade all of our talented players and also to draft future players.

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17 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

My worry is that the same person who kept Brad around is the same guy that we're trusting to trade all of our talented players and also to draft future players.

Brad’s still around?

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