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4/9 @6:10 Detroit Tigers vs Cleveland Indians

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43 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Alex Avila was just too swarthy.

The Diamondbacks are really missing out.  They should be batting him second in the order.......you know, because he walks once in a while.  :)

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

It was 52 in Houston the other day.  Unseasonably cold all over this year.  Do you comprehend?

Right now all I care about is that I will (probably) get to open some windows around the house.   This ain't even a baseball thing right now, this is a mental health thing.   

  • Haha 1

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12 hours ago, ktpinnacle said:

92 here today.  But it was tax day for me as well.  Taking the good with the bad.

 

Kubler was amazing.  When he wanted to throw a strike, it was on the edge of the strike zone marked on the screen each time.  With movement.  

Kluber is an amazing pitcher, but he was not throwing strikes yesterday...they were just being called strikes...then you have the domino effect of hitters HAVING to swing at crap because they know it will be called a strike.  He would have beat us either way most likely, but that was not a fair display last night.

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13 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Kluber is an amazing pitcher, but he was not throwing strikes yesterday...they were just being called strikes...then you have the domino effect of hitters HAVING to swing at crap because they know it will be called a strike.  He would have beat us either way most likely, but that was not a fair display last night.

When a pitcher hits the corners repeatedly, he gets the border line calls from the umps. It's been happening for many years. I'm not saying it's right, just that it happens. And Kluber, who doesn't need any help, was "on" last night.

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27 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Kluber is an amazing pitcher, but he was not throwing strikes yesterday...they were just being called strikes...then you have the domino effect of hitters HAVING to swing at crap because they know it will be called a strike.  He would have beat us either way most likely, but that was not a fair display last night.

My dad was convinced Greg Maddux was an above average pitcher who was only great because he got all the borderline calls.

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12 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

When a pitcher hits the corners repeatedly, he gets the border line calls from the umps. It's been happening for many years. I'm not saying it's right, just that it happens. And Kluber, who doesn't need any help, was "on" last night.

They were not really borderline though.  Not the ones I saw.  Admittedly I did not watch the whole game, but what I saw was a TON of pitches off the corner.

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

Kluber is an amazing pitcher, but he was not throwing strikes yesterday...they were just being called strikes...then you have the domino effect of hitters HAVING to swing at crap because they know it will be called a strike.  He would have beat us either way most likely, but that was not a fair display last night.

It looks like he got 4 calls in the inside but he lost at least one high, but here are a lot of good strikes in this plot.

&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_

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32 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It looks like he got 4 calls in the inside but he lost at least one high, but here are a lot of good strikes in this plot.

&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_

Is that from the hitters perspective or the pitchers?

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

Is that from the hitters perspective or the pitchers?

Umpires view - so hitter's. So the extra calls were outside to a RHB. I'd forgotten which side it was from.

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5 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It looks like he got 4 calls in the inside but he lost at least one high, but here are a lot of good strikes in this plot.

&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_

That looks like a better-than-average game for an ump - he called 4 strikes that were outside the zone, and missed 2 balls that were inside the zone.

But yeah just do it electronically FFS.  You still need the guy for foul tips, plays at the plate, balks etc.  Taking the home plate ump's strike zone judgement out of the game is long past due.

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12 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

That looks like a better-than-average game for an ump - he called 4 strikes that were outside the zone, and missed 2 balls that were inside the zone.

But yeah just do it electronically FFS.  You still need the guy for foul tips, plays at the plate, balks etc.  Taking the home plate ump's strike zone judgement out of the game is long past due.

The only thing I can say then is that the Box they used on TV was way off because there were AT LEAST 4 balls that were CALLED strikes that were low and away from RH hitters according to the box they had up.

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Related or unrelated, there was a shot of the plate with 8 baseballs in line across it during a recent ESPN game.  Actually it was 6 baseballs on the plate with one on the outside of either corner.  It just kind of struck me as a unique way of seeing the width of the plate that the pitchers have to work with.

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48 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

The only thing I can say then is that the Box they used on TV was way off because there were AT LEAST 4 balls that were CALLED strikes that were low and away from RH hitters according to the box they had up.

The Fox box is not very accurate. If you have gameday up at the same time you have a Fox broadcast on you will see the fox box shows a pretty good number of pitches outside the zone that Gameday puts in the box, and usually it's the gameday result you see reflected in Pitch F/X or the other 'official' data logging sites later. I don't know why Fox doesn't correct their system, or why the league doesn't push them, since it leads to a lot of unfair criticism of the umps by Fox commentators looking at the FoxTrax result which may not be correct. There are enough umps that don't call balls and strikes well to be criticized without dumping on others that do.

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56 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The Fox box is not very accurate. If you have gameday up at the same time you have a Fox broadcast on you will see the fox box shows a pretty good number of pitches outside the zone that Gameday puts in the box, and usually it's the gameday result you see reflected in Pitch F/X or the other 'official' data logging sites later. I don't know why Fox doesn't correct their system, or why the league doesn't push them, since it leads to a lot of unfair criticism of the umps by Fox commentators looking at the FoxTrax result which may not be correct. There are enough umps that don't call balls and strikes well to be criticized without dumping on others that do.

Even without the box though, for me anyway, those 4 I am referencing were indeed out of the strike zone.  

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No way to know exactly where the pitch is simply from watching on television.  The camera is at an angle ..otherwise the pitcher would obstruct the view if a 'straight shot' toward home plate.

 

Umpires are not only human ..they are also emotional ..and thus the vast majority of them WILL have their own unique methods of calling pitches for/against certain pitchers/players/teams.  Anybody who does not believe this is only fooling himself.  Futhermore, ..each of their own unique 'stances' (positioning) behind the plate will give them many different perspectives depending upon pitch-slot and batter-stance.  

Way too many variables.  A catch-22 situation.

btw: I do not believe the technology exists yet that will allow a 'machine' to call balls and strikes with absolute 100% accuracy.  And until it does .. then still better off with the 'human' factor calling balls and strikes.  

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25 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

btw: I do not believe the technology exists yet that will allow a 'machine' to call balls and strikes with absolute 100% accuracy.  And until it does .. then still better off with the 'human' factor calling balls and strikes.  

I think this is only partly true. It is true in that the top and bottom of the strike zone do not have any completely unambiguous definition, thus given the current situation, it is logically impossible for there to be any hard rule which an automated system must have. However inside/outside is completely unambiguous and could easily be determined electronically and instantly for the ump.

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8 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

However inside/outside is completely unambiguous and could easily be determined electronically and instantly for the ump.

How?

It would have to be capable of accurately monitoring the entire width and length of the plate.  What technology can do that?

And what good would it do if unable to determine height?

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9 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

How?

It would have to be capable of accurately monitoring the entire width and length of the plate.  What technology can do that?

And what good would it do if unable to determine height?

I'm no engineer but I have to believe that the technology exists to monitor the perimeter of the plate and determine whether or not anything breaks the vertical plane.  Checked swings might break it but that's what the umps are for, to make those rulings, same as now.  I might be misinformed but don't they do that already on the goal line in some high-end soccer stadiums?

As for vertical, yes a guy like Rickey Henderson can make himself 2 feet high and then stand up out of the crouch if he likes a pitch.  I'd put a stop to that if I could.  At the start of each AB you could have the batter assume a reasonable athletic stance (as adjudicated by the home plate ump), for long enough that the AI sensors over each dugout could adjust the high and low limits and monitor them.  I'll bet that we have guys on this board who could comment on the feasibility.  But if we have to rely on the home plate ump for high-low, so be it.

Yeah I know, then we could just play the game with robots.  But ridiculous strike zone calls pissed me off when I was 10, and there were no possible solutions for incompetence.  Now it seems as though there are some possible solutions, and the MLB home-plate umps aren't that much better than the umps that I had when I was 10. 

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we do projects in freshmen engineering lab on a par with monitoring the edge of the plate - trust me, it would not be hard. There are IR, Sonar, and optical methods to choose from, and of course you could make it even easier if you chip the center of the ball, though that's not necessary. The vertical is the question, and as discussed above, the reason is not technical,  a system could tell you exactly what height every pitch crossed the plate - the real problem is that there really is no fixed rule to program a system with - the vertical of the strike zone has always been based on the umpires judgement based on the batter's body confirmation and stance and movement at the plate - plus his position at the  point the ump judges the batter is 'set' to receive the pitch etc.

Why would it still be worth it? Because the pitch most batters complain about being rung up on unfairly is the unreachable pitch outside, and the pitch pitchers get screwed on the most is the good 0-2 pitch anywhere on the outer third of the plate being called a ball. Technology can easily take the variability out of those.

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10 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

we do projects in freshmen engineering lab

Wow, you're a lot younger than I envisioned.

 

 

 

 

 

;-)

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14 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

How?

It would have to be capable of accurately monitoring the entire width and length of the plate.  What technology can do that?

And what good would it do if unable to determine height?

My proposal would be set an objective strike zone height based on the height of the batter. Altuve’s would be smaller than judge’s and closer to the ground, for example. 

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6 minutes ago, Shelton said:

 Altuve’s would be smaller than judge’s and closer to the ground, for example. 

This kind of post is what convinced me that you can't slip anything past Shelton.

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23 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

btw: I do not believe the technology exists yet that will allow a 'machine' to call balls and strikes with absolute 100% accuracy.  And until it does .. then still better off with the 'human' factor calling balls and strikes.  

You do not need absolute 100% accuracy to be better off using a computer / optics than a human ump.

You just have to be more accurate than the umps to be better off.

There is enough human factor with the players and managers.

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