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OKAY, my bad, it was Joe Morgan (traded for Lee MAY) who flapped his arm,  been a  long time. Still it would be sadly funny watching Mantle subordinate himself to such a program. 

I promise mantle used every advantage he could obtain to make himself a better hitter. You don’t get there purely on talent. It’s weird that you think that would be sad.


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1 hour ago, Darth42 said:

74% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

That's only about half true, for the most part.

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

This thread is great. 

Just like the old days.  

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2 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

Guys like Dimaggio and Mantle would have told the "tech" geeks to go f-themselves.

Back then they would have.  Now, that technology is widely accepted, I really doubt they would say that if they played today.  

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So was Joe Morgan's arm flaps good thing or a bad thing?

It was entertaining.  I think it was a nervous tick more than anything.  I doubt it made him significantly better or worse.  

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39 minutes ago, Yoda said:


I promise mantle used every advantage he could obtain to make himself a better hitter. 

You mean like showing up for the game sober?   :alien:

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15 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So was Joe Morgan's arm flaps good thing or a bad thing?

It may have intimidated some pitchers, distracted others. 

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57 minutes ago, ktpinnacle said:

Thx for the vid.  There are certain guys that have a high baseball IQ - right from the start.  

Jeez.  What a beautiful kid - he weighs about 205 at most there, like a young Cassius Clay in 1964.  Thanks Yoda, that was so enjoyable.

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Mantle and DiMaggio would have rejected the casual advice of batting coaches, "choke up and punch it" between tobacco spits, but if you had shown them launch angle and exit velocity they would have been all over it.  Ted Williams was the savant who knew all of that without anyone explaining it to him, and without him being able to explain it to anyone else.

As for showing up sober, Mantle himself admitted that on Johnny Carson in the 1970's.  When asked if there was anything that he would do differently if he could go back, he readily admitted that he would "take better care of himself" and he didn't have to say anything else, everyone knew what he meant.

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:


I promise mantle used every advantage he could obtain to make himself a better hitter. You don’t get there purely on talent. It’s weird that you think that would be sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IDK, at least as I recall through the fog of the years, the Mick never had much of a reputation for being a disciplined guy off the field - but then again the history of guys like that tends to get written and rewritten to where it's hard to figure out what is true from what is gloss.

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22 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

Mantle and DiMaggio would have rejected the casual advice of batting coaches, "choke up and punch it" between tobacco spits, but if you had shown them launch angle and exit velocity they would have been all over it.  Ted Williams was the savant who knew all of that without anyone explaining it to him, and without him being able to explain it to anyone else.

As for showing up sober, Mantle himself admitted that on Johnny Carson in the 1970's.  When asked if there was anything that he would do differently if he could go back, he readily admitted that he would "take better care of himself" and he didn't have to say anything else, everyone knew what he meant.

Yes, Players are interested in stats and technology that can help them become better players.  WAR calculations do not help them.  Launch angle helps them.  

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK, at least as I recall through the fog of the years, the Mick never had much of a reputation for being a disciplined guy off the field - but then again the history of guys like that tends to get written and rewritten to where it's hard to figure out what is true from what is gloss.

Cabrera had the same reputation early in his career.  

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46 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

It may have intimidated some pitchers, distracted others. 

May have been as simple as made him feel more comfortable at the plate.

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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK, at least as I recall through the fog of the years, the Mick never had much of a reputation for being a disciplined guy off the field - but then again the history of guys like that tends to get written and rewritten to where it's hard to figure out what is true from what is gloss.

I think that the basic narrative is true, that The Mick and Billy Martin and associated hangers-on like Whitey Ford got ****-drunk after games more often than not, and that that has had to have had a negative effect on performance the following day.  Mantle himself admitted it after his career was over, as I alluded to earlier with the Johnny Carson interview.

I still think that if you had shown him launch angle and exit velocity he would have readily accepted it, and who knows maybe he would have sobered up a bit to take advantage of it.

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32 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Cabrera had the same reputation early in his career.  

which appears to have been supported by  evidence...

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19 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

which appears to have been supported by  evidence...

Oh yes, and I think that if you asked him 10 years from now if there is anything that he would have done differently he would answer that question the same way that Mickey Mantle did.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Cabrera had the same reputation early in his career.  

Truth.  Confirmed by a conversation I had with someone who played with him back then.

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13 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I think it's more likely they would have left natural talents like Dimaggio and Mantle alone and used the technology to help players that needed to be fixed.  It's also possible that one of the stars would have chosen to improve himself even more by taking the initiative to use technology.  Verlander is an example from today.  I don't see much downside to the technology.  

Hard to say if they would have or not.  Depends on how hat they started.  If they had a below average year their first year in the biggs...Mantle had an average first year, but Dimaggio was off to a hot start so they most likely would have left him alone, but they may have tried to tweak Mantle.

Quote

Guys like Dimaggio and Mantle would have told the "tech" geeks to go f-themselves.

And LOL that.

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12 hours ago, Darth42 said:

74% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

It is 69%!  You are WRONG!

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Some of the old theories on development and performance were indeed silly.  But the fact they were out there shows a constant desire to excel and learn and get better.  I have no doubt the tools we use today would have been used by people in the 30a and 60s if they existed.  Why wouldn’t they?

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2 hours ago, Oblong said:

Some of the old theories on development and performance were indeed silly.  But the fact they were out there shows a constant desire to excel and learn and get better.  I have no doubt the tools we use today would have been used by people in the 30a and 60s if they existed.  Why wouldn’t they?

True.  I guess I look at it like, nobody over the age of ## would be on the web or have a smart phone because they didn't have access to it before, and they got along just fine without it to begin with.  Sure, there are sometimes some hold outs, and that might still occur in a particular situation.

Maybe that's an overly simplistic viewpoint, but I think it applies.

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6 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Welcome, newbies

 

One of the first 45s I ever purchased. 

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