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Who Did Miguel Pass Today?

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11 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I saw Belanger play and yes he was a fine defensive shortstop without doubt.

But..How much meaning can you assign to a defensive WAR number calculated from a pre Rdrs/UZR tracking era? Someone can generate a number for DWAR, but when there is little in the way of quantitative play/range  data behind  it, it is sort of a fantasy exercise isn't it?

Good points. My train of logic too often follows that of Harry Nilsson, which usually leads me askew. He did, however, compose "the point" in its entirety. So there's that.

 

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14 hours ago, leflore said:

Iirc Kaline was from Baltimore and wanted to sign there, but his father said he will get more playing time in Detroit so he signed with the good guys.

Kaline was from Baltimore, but when the Tigers signed him in '53 there was no MLB team in Baltimore (the Browns moved to Baltimore in '54),

The Tigers had a better OF in 53 than the Browns.  The Browns had no money, which prompted the move.

I suspect it had to do with the Tigers offering more by way of bonus more than anything.

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7 hours ago, leflore said:

Good points. My train of logic too often follows that of Harry Nilsson, which usually leads me askew. He did, however, compose "the point" in its entirety. So there's that.

 

If Trump loses the election, the Rockman will return as my avatar.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Kaline was from Baltimore, but when the Tigers signed him in '53 there was no MLB team in Baltimore (the Browns moved to Baltimore in '54),

The Tigers had a better OF in 53 than the Browns.  The Browns had no money, which prompted the move.

I suspect it had to do with the Tigers offering more by way of bonus more than anything.

Yeah, my bad on the Orioles. I obviously remembered that wrong. I recently saw a video of Kaline saying he wanted to sign with some other team but his father encouraged Detroit because they had lesser established OFers and his playing time would come quickest there. It was Al himself who said it. Just looked for the clip and haven't found it yet

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12 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I saw Belanger play and yes he was a fine defensive shortstop without doubt.

But..How much meaning can you assign to a defensive WAR number calculated from a pre Rdrs/UZR tracking era? Someone can generate a number for DWAR, but when there is little in the way of quantitative play/range  data behind  it, it is sort of a fantasy exercise isn't it?

I think being at or near the best ever at a key defensive position over a long career is a valid basis for a guy to be in the Hall of Fame, because it is not the Hall of Offensive Prowess.  Defense is, after all,  the reason that Bill Mazeroski and Ozzie Smith and Luis Aparicio are in, as all of them had Career OPS+ numbers in the 80s.  Belanger's OPS+ of 68, though, was apparently just too low for the voters for his defense to offset it.  Still, he was one of the handful of best defensive shortstops I've ever seen.  

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3 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Don't know how one can accurately estimate Satchel Paige's value as a player, but pretty much everyone concedes he was a front-line HoF pitcher.

An all-time favorite of mine. Have a pic hanging in my home and a couple of his 1953 Topps cards. He was a mlb rookie at 42 and still had a couple solid years. Then amazingly at age 58 he pitched 3 scoreless, 1-hit innings. First book report I wrote was on a biography about Satchel. Have had a fascination with the negro leagues ever since. I wish someone would write a book/make a movie about Rube Foster

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GAME 9

Games Played - 2,409 (T83) - Passed David Ortiz at 2,408.

Plate Appearances - 10,273 (67) - Passed <IVAN RODRIGUEZ> at 10,270.

Total Bases - 4,871 (25) - Passed <Honus Wagner> at 4,870.

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On 7/31/2020 at 12:47 AM, Gehringer_2 said:

I saw Belanger play and yes he was a fine defensive shortstop without doubt.

But..How much meaning can you assign to a defensive WAR number calculated from a pre Rdrs/UZR tracking era? Someone can generate a number for DWAR, but when there is little in the way of quantitative play/range  data behind  it, it is sort of a fantasy exercise isn't it?

I am not sure DRS/UZR are substantially superior to range factor with adjustments for strikeouts, handedness of batters faced, etc.  Over the course of a long career, the numbers will tell you who the great fielders are and the really bad ones are.  

No matter how you do it, Smith and Belanger will be at or near the top of the list.  

 

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