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ROMAD1

Where do things end with Vlad?

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I don't know what the endgame is, but it'd be nice if all the energy that was channeled into anger against Radical Islamic terrorists would also be directed towards the Russian regime. They are as big a threat

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4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't know what the endgame is, but it'd be nice if all the energy that was channeled into anger against Radical Islamic terrorists would also be directed towards the Russian regime. They are as big a threat

A much bigger threat because they are organized and have state money behind them.    Putin is at war with the West and everyone knows it.    Britain needs to throw out all Russian Diplomats.     

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50 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

What is the end game?  

Not give a flippant answer to a serious question, but I would honestly say that we can't know yet because that is  something the voters are going to  decide in '18. If the public gives this a big yawn, who knows where Putin/Trump/Murdoch/Fox can take it?

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27 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't know what the endgame is, but it'd be nice if all the energy that was channeled into anger against Radical Islamic terrorists would also be directed towards the Russian regime. They are as big a threat

I tell you as someone who has devoted the bulk of my professional career to fighting the former...the Russians are the bigger threat right now.  

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8 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

I tell you as someone who has devoted the bulk of my professional career to fighting the former...the Russians are the bigger threat right now.  

My dad spent his entire career fighting the Russians.  And we haven't had them taken seriously by our government in decades, at least back to GWB.  

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Maybe the Clinton administration, though honestly spent a spent a good portion of that with pregnancy brain so ... fuzzy on a lot of it.

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I liked Barack Obama a lot, but even I admit that he was weak here. Like his predecessor, he tried to make nice with Putin and got burned. 

At some point, our politicians have to face up to the reality.

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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43402506

Quote

The UK has called for an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss the poisoning of a former double agent in Salisbury, the Foreign Office says.

Russia failed to respond to a midnight deadline set by Theresa May to explain how a Russian-made nerve agent was used on Sergei Skripal and daughter Yulia.

The PM is set to announce a series of measures against Russia ahead the UN meeting, expected this evening.

 

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I can see Putin getting away with more agressive tactics and assignations until new leadership arrives in the U.S., which could lead to a Cold War 2.0. 

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Just now, smr-nj said:

They should expel their diplomats immediately.  

I'm listening to PMQ (the shouting match where everyone yells at the Prime Minister).  Waiting on her edicts in the breach of further UN/EU/NATO consultation.s 

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/10-possible-british-responses-to-russia-over-the-sergei-skripal-affair

Here are The Guardian's considered actions

Quote

1) Expulsion of diplomats

A minimalist option deployed by David Cameron’s government after the poisoning with polonium of Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. Expulsion of the ambassador would be a major step, but would leave the UK bereft of a high-level conduit to Moscow. Retaliation, including the expulsion of the UK ambassador from Russia, would probably follow, putting UK relations in a deep freeze.

2) Ask Ofcom to declare that Russian media outlets such as RT are not fit to hold a broadcasting licence

Public figures including shadow cabinet members, or the football manager José Mourinho, could be formally encouraged to pull out of the lucrative contracts they have signed to appear on RT. Such a move would be welcomed at least in France, where strong measures have been taken against fake news after allegations of Russian interference in the French presidential elections.

3) Seek support in the EU for sports officials not to attend the World Cup

This would not involve a boycott by footballers, but, in any case, many countries are unlikely to want to follow suit.

4) Introduce amendments to the sanctions and anti-money laundering bill

The legislation could be amended to allow stronger sanctions against human rights abusers, such as the persecutors of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian tax accountant who died in jail in Russia after revealing details of massive state-sponsored fraud.

The Foreign Office says it already has full confiscatory powers, but under pressure from Tory backbenchers such as Richard Benyon, and the Europe minister, Sir Alan Duncan, said ministers were minded to support a Magnitsky clause once the bill reaches report stage and the technical legal definitions of gross human rights abuse have been resolved. But ministers see this as a symbolic act to assuage public opinion.

5) Freeze assets of Russian oligarchs unable to explain sources of London property wealth

This would be legally risky and might hit as many Putin opponents as allies.

6) Seek further EU-wide sanctions on Russia

Russia, country under the most sanctions in the world apart from North Korea, has proved resilient to punitive measures. It is often a battle to persuade Germany, Italy and Greece to maintain existing EU sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. Most experts say these sanctions reduced Russian growth by only 1% last year. In a recent report the Estonian intelligence agency said Putin “uses western sanctions to shield himself from criticism of a failed economic policy”, saying they help “to some degree to paper over the fundamental weaknesses in the economy”.

In the US, sanctions are being driven by Congress, not the White House, mainly through the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act passed in August. The law aims to punish Russia for its alleged meddling in the 2016 US presidential election.

In support of the act, Congress demanded the US Treasury name and shame those who had benefited from close association with Putin and put them on notice that they could be targeted for sanctions, or more sanctions, in the future. No one on the list has been put under sanctions, and it appears to have been derived from a Forbes magazine list of Russian businessmen.

7) Step up Nato presence on the Russian border

The British army already has a four-year rotational presence, but moves closer to Belarus would send a signal.

The Trump administration says it has already asked to increase funding for the European Deterrence Initiative, a Barack Obama-era programme aimed at bolstering Nato’s defences against Russia, by almost $2bn. The White House says it has provided the Ukrainian military with extra arms for east Ukraine.

Nato can also step up the strategic pressure on Moscow by speeding the process of admitting Ukraine into provisional Nato membership through agreeing a membership action plan. Similar encouragement can be offered in the Balkans, a key area of conflict with Russia. The EU foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, is visiting Ukraine this week on the fourth anniversary of the annexation of Crimea.

8) Designate Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism

In the US, designation results in a variety of unilateral sanctions, including a ban on arms-related exports and sales, prohibitions on economic assistance, and other punitive measures.

9) Cut Russian banks off from Swift

Some Russian banks linked to Iran have been cut off from the international system for the exchange of financial data (Swift). This might weaken Russia’s ability to trade internationally, but Russian banks have switched to a Russian payment system called SPFS set up with larger non-G7 countries.

10) Leak or publish classified material on the scale of alleged money laundering by Putin and his allies

The UK intelligence services have access to a large volume of material, some open sourced, setting out where Putin, his family and business entourage have placed money abroad. It would be possible for the UK government to give an official imprimatur to such information. The downside is that it would be viewed as an attempt to interfere in the current Russian presidential election campaign. Publishing personal information on rival political leaders has been seen as off limits, and might only prompt unwelcome reprisals aimed at UK politicians.

#6 for sure.  More vigorous version of #3.   And definitely #9.  #9 would sting hard. 

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[Interesting to hear that the Uk is having a gun violence epidemic]

 

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Corbyn states support for May but looks like he's waiting for information on our provision of a sample for the Russian government. 

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Labor back benchers are very pro-efforts to work with the UN.  Corbyn's being dissed by them.

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I have a feeling longer term, Putin is going to do to Russia what Chavez did to Venezuela - meaning primarily that the disaster comes when he finally dies (or is done in by one of his own loose cannons..). When Putin goes, there will be no institutions left to manage any kind of transition of real power, and he will have decapitated any competent political leadership below him similarly to Chavez, which means that Russia will probably get exactly what Venezuela got in Madero - a brutal thug who is also completely incompetent to manage a modern state. Ergo - the state will cease to be modern (to whatever degree you can call Russia today modern.)

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8 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

those gasps were audible

It's a key component in the Russian propaganda system to have fellow travellers placed where they can present these fig leaf figments of fantasy - as much for internal consumption as external.

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31 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

No UK dignitaries to World Cup (weak)...

It could be stronger, but it's the kind of isolation that the Russian Federation is asking for with these moves.

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