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Pistons trade for Blake Griffin

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57 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

A franchise like the Pistons has to make deals like this. You either have to be all in to win or all in to tank. Griffin immediately becomes the best player to play for the Pistons in 10-12 years. He's signed long-term for a ton of money, but at least they have the security that he is staying here and they can pair him with Drummond. 

Let's say LeBron goes west next year and the Cavs become a mess. It's not inconceivable that the Pistons would have a CHANCE to win a playoff series or two next season. Ultimately that's what people want, a winner. You don't win in the NBA without a star, and the Pistons got one. A GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY GET TO THE FOUL LINE. WHAT A CONCEPT.

I like that he can get his own shot, get to the foul line, is a very good passer, is someone to build around in the short term.  I don't like going with a 4/5 focused lineup, losing 3 point shooting (and spacing) depth, moving younger guys for older guys, the injury history (and combing that with Jackson's injury history).

This might get them into the playoffs this season and next, but is that the end result?

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1 hour ago, Sydney_Fife said:

A franchise like the Pistons has to make deals like this. You either have to be all in to win or all in to tank. Griffin immediately becomes the best player to play for the Pistons in 10-12 years. He's signed long-term for a ton of money, but at least they have the security that he is staying here and they can pair him with Drummond. 

Let's say LeBron goes west next year and the Cavs become a mess. It's not inconceivable that the Pistons would have a CHANCE to win a playoff series or two next season. Ultimately that's what people want, a winner. You don't win in the NBA without a star, and the Pistons got one. A GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY GET TO THE FOUL LINE. WHAT A CONCEPT.

What's the foul line?

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The last time the Pistons tried a lineup focused on 4/5 with Monroe and Drummond, it didn't work.  Now Griffin is a better player than Monroe, and Drummond is a better player than when he played with Monroe, yet it still doesn't seem like it will be a successful strategy.

Anyways, this was a desperation move by SVG with Gore's blessings.  If it works, you'll have a team that can probably advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs for a few years before a rebuild is needed.  If it doesn't work, Pistons basketball is dead for many years to come.

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1 minute ago, Euphdude said:

The last time the Pistons tried a lineup focused on 4/5 with Monroe and Drummond, it didn't work.  Now Griffin is a better player than Monroe, and Drummond is a better player than when he played with Monroe, yet it still doesn't seem like it will be a successful strategy.

Bring back Josh Smith?

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Just now, Casimir said:

Bring back Josh Smith?

I nominate you to be the SVG replacement that will need to untangle this mess!

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Gores is probably content consistently making the first round with the occasional 2nd round appearance.

He bought the team for $350M six years ago. If he sold today I think he would have no problem getting a billion dollars for them. 

He probably just wants a somewhat competent team that won't lose much money every season while his investment doubles every 3-5 years.

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3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Bring back Josh Smith?

We're paying him. That ******* should at least have to park cars at the new arena.

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

Gores is probably content consistently making the first round with the occasional 2nd round appearance.

He bought the team for $350M six years ago. If he sold today I think he would have no problem getting a billion dollars for them. 

He probably just wants a somewhat competent team that won't lose much money every season while his investment doubles every 3-5 years.

To add on this point, it wouldn't surprise me if just putting ***es in the seats means as much to him right now as play-off success.

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

He probably just wants a somewhat competent team that won't lose much money every season while his investment doubles every 3-5 years.

You're probably right.  The illusion of wanting to win a championship is enough to bring a lot of fans to the table who will spend oodles of money.

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It's a shame Patrick Beverley is out for the year. Watching him and Bradley lockdown opposing backcourts would have been fun.

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The next couple of summers could be interesting.

The Pistons have about $116M committed this summer to just 12 guys. 

The luxury tax is $119M this year. So if the cap stays the same or even drops, they could be in trouble.

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9 hours ago, azzurri said:

The past few years the Clippers were a 50-55 win, 3-5ish seed, and an early 1st or 2nd round exit in the playoffs.  Now, let's compare that squad to the current Pistons.  The Clippers had a better Blake Griffin than we're getting, a DeAndre Jordan who is at least Drummond's equal, and Chris Paul - who is light years ahead of Reggie, when healthy.  Plus, their supporting cast was better (and their coaching).  So, I don't see how this makes the Pistons more than a mid-40s win team, at best.  And, I feel the Clippers got the better of the deal by getting 2 starters for 1 (who is often injured).  This does bring some excitement back to the Pistons...but, let's hope we're not getting a disgruntled Griffin.  But, seriously, the Pistons' problem is point guard...this does not address that hole at all.  And, they gave up their only real bargaining chips (Bradley, Harris) to get a PG.  

Yes but the west was a lot tougher than the east is now and with LeBron likely out of the conference next season, the east gets even softer. 

Also, I wouldn't consider Bradley much of a bargaining chip because of his pending free agency and poor play this season, not enough to get a legit PG at least.  Harris could have been though.

This was a trade to put fans in the seats, plain and simple.  Gores probably saw what an embarrassment it was to have all those empty red seats (even when the Pistons were 14-6) and probably pressured SVG to find a superstar. Plus this move reeks of a desperate GM using a last ditch effort to save his job.

I'd say that there's a good chance that this blows up in their face and looks like a mistake in 2-3 years time, maybe sooner.  I actually like this move for the Clippers, they get rid of an injury prone max contract player who is entering the wrong side of his prime and was leading them nowhere anyway and get cap and draft pick flexibility for the future, a trade chip in Bradley to get another draft pick and a young scorer in Harris who can be part of a rebuilding process.

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1 hour ago, Sydney_Fife said:

A franchise like the Pistons has to make deals like this. You either have to be all in to win or all in to tank. Griffin immediately becomes the best player to play for the Pistons in 10-12 years. He's signed long-term for a ton of money, but at least they have the security that he is staying here and they can pair him with Drummond. 

Let's say LeBron goes west next year and the Cavs become a mess. It's not inconceivable that the Pistons would have a CHANCE to win a playoff series or two next season. Ultimately that's what people want, a winner. You don't win in the NBA without a star, and the Pistons got one. A GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY GET TO THE FOUL LINE. WHAT A CONCEPT.

This is difficult to disagree with.

Griffin gives the Pistons a guy who can go best-for-best with just about any player in the league, and that is a luxury the club hasn't had in a very long time.  For those thinking the Pistons are getting second big to pair with Drummond that will clog the floor--Griffin plays an inside-out game.  Imagine if Karl Malone shot threes and passed like a guard?  That's Griffin on offense.  He doesn't rebound quite like Malone,  doesn't score quite as much, but this is a player with a broad skill set that who could help any basketball team in the NBA.

The injury concerns are real, and giving up a projected top-10 pick in the draft this year is a real loss.  But the silver lining is that this draft is big-heavy and the Pistons have bigs.  It is hard to say whether or not any player in this draft would be as good of a player as Blake Griffin, and whoever the Pistons could have landed by trading in a draft-day deal almost for sure would have been inferior--even in a package.  The Pistons haven't had a player capable of as much offensive production since Grant Hill.

Griffin is likely on the back-end of his physical prime years given his injury history.  By the end of his contract he could very well be an albatross with his $39M paycheck.  But for the next few years he will be the team's leading scorer and possibly its lone AS.  If SVG gets the Ziggy, and a new guy wants to blow the team up, Griffin has considerable trade value in spite of his contract.  Teams figure out numbers when they want to attain the guy they feel can put them over the top.

The team has needed a secondary facilitator for years, and now it has one.  No more relying on just the point guards to promote distribution, and that makes the Pistons harder to defend.  Griffin's three-point shooting will be in the neighborhood of Harris before this season (or maybe going forward for Harris, as he's come back down to earth).  He's the best secondary rebounder the Pistons have had since Sheed.  If you want to count the Greg Monroe Experiment, fine, no real argument.

Will the Pistons move Drummond now?  Hard to say but SVG would need picks back for sure.  Clearing out Boban's salary and getting something for Bradley was a coup.  Losing Bradley out of the starting lineup and replacing him with indigenous personnel is a bit of a win.  Say goodbye to long twos from the shooting guard spot.  Reed may take minutes away from Moreland, or he may not--but it is good to have a non-specialized option.  I haven't seen Johnson play since his back injury, but he's a lottery ticket that may very well go unused this season.

What do the Pistons do with the $7M trade exception?   Is there any way they don't use it before the deadline?  Pop does have two extra point guards lying around.

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1 hour ago, Sydney_Fife said:

A franchise like the Pistons has to make deals like this. You either have to be all in to win or all in to tank. Griffin immediately becomes the best player to play for the Pistons in 10-12 years. He's signed long-term for a ton of money, but at least they have the security that he is staying here and they can pair him with Drummond. 

Let's say LeBron goes west next year and the Cavs become a mess. It's not inconceivable that the Pistons would have a CHANCE to win a playoff series or two next season. Ultimately that's what people want, a winner. You don't win in the NBA without a star, and the Pistons got one. A GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY GET TO THE FOUL LINE. WHAT A CONCEPT.

The Pistons should have done what the Clippers did.  Unload these "core" players that are getting them nowhere for draft picks and expiring contracts and hope to strike oil in the lottery.  As much of a risk as it was, I'd rather them go the Hinke route of tearing it all down than go from one mediocre route to another.

If they wanted to make a big splash, they should have gone all in for a top tier point guard, somebody like Kemba Walker.  Now they are trying to recreate Lob City-lite with CP3=Jackson, Redick=Kennard, young Griffin=Older Griffin, DeAndre=Andre and as you can see, the former is much better than the latter.  Maybe in the weaker east, they can win a playoff series eventually and that's if Griffin is ever healthy but it's a limited ceiling team with no direction.

At least the Pistons are relevant again so that should make Gores happy but I'm not sure that this is a winning formula.

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1 minute ago, NYLion said:

The Pistons should have done what the Clippers did.  Unload these "core" players that are getting them nowhere for draft picks and expiring contracts and hope to strike oil in the lottery.  As much of a risk as it was, I'd rather them go the Hinke route of tearing it all down than go from one mediocre route to another.

If they wanted to make a big splash, they should have gone all in for a top tier point guard, somebody like Kemba Walker.  Now they are trying to recreate Lob City-lite with CP3=Jackson, Redick=Kennard, young Griffin=Older Griffin, DeAndre=Andre.  Maybe in the weaker east, they can win a playoff series eventually and that's if Griffin is ever healthy but it's a limited ceiling team with no direction.

You do understand that Griffin is still really good, right?

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1 minute ago, mickeyb105 said:

You do understand that Griffin is still really good, right?

He's injured all the time, that's my big issue and considering his style of play and now entering his 30s soon, that's unlikely to become less of an issue as time goes on.

I thought you wanted them to go the Hinkie route?

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The Hinkie route was a ridiculous idea.

Never had a possibility of happening, at all. And you guys know it too. I don't know why you were even dreaming/ discussing the possibility.

Gores/ SVG signing on for the Hinkie plan? Pipe dream.

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Can we pump the brakes on Griffin being a 3 point shooter?  He's shooting more 3s than in the past, but is 34.2% something to credit him with if the league average is 36.2%

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7 minutes ago, NYLion said:

The Pistons should have done what the Clippers did.  Unload these "core" players that are getting them nowhere for draft picks and expiring contracts and hope to strike oil in the lottery.  As much of a risk as it was, I'd rather them go the Hinke route of tearing it all down than go from one mediocre route to another.

If they wanted to make a big splash, they should have gone all in for a top tier point guard, somebody like Kemba Walker.  Now they are trying to recreate Lob City-lite with CP3=Jackson, Redick=Kennard, young Griffin=Older Griffin, DeAndre=Andre and as you can see, the former is much better than the latter.  Maybe in the weaker east, they can win a playoff series eventually and that's if Griffin is ever healthy but it's a limited ceiling team with no direction.

At least the Pistons are relevant again so that should make Gores happy but I'm not sure that this is a winning formula.

Hope to strike oil in the lottery, lol. Sounds just as risky as trading for Blake and hoping he stays healthy. If Blake and Jackson are healthy, the Pistons will compete for home court in round 1 next year.

There's an inherent "risk" in everything sports franchises do. Mitigating that risk as much as possible is the goal, and I'll always take a star player for essentially "spare parts" and a draft pick seems like a pretty good deal to me. Bradley was walking, Harris is terrible when the shot doesn't fall, and Boban doesn't play. Not to mention Harris is a FA after next season. If the Pistons make the playoffs this year, it's the next Henry Ellenson.

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Just now, NYLion said:

He's injured all the time, that's my big issue and considering his style of play and now entering his 30s soon, that's unlikely to become less of an issue as time goes on.

I thought you wanted them to go the Hinkie route?

Have you seen him play this year?  He plays more like a SF now than a traditional 4, lots of offense run through him.  

The good part about Blake's injuries, if there is one, is that the ones he has had haven't been reoccurring.  It has slowed him down some, but then again it has also made him use his full skill set.  He capable of dropping a TD any given game against any team.

Of course I wanted a complete overhaul, but it is unproductive to complain about it not happening.  The addition of Griffin gives the Pistons its biggest individual asset it has had in two decades, and yes that is double-edged sword.  

That SVG did a few things I wanted is great.  He actually used Bradley as a trade chip, just like I wanted him to do since that trade was made.  He traded Harris with enough time left on his deal to get real value for him.  Additionally, he unloaded Boban before he made $9M next season.

I think it is important to take wins when you can get them as a fan.

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

Can we pump the brakes on Griffin being a 3 point shooter?  He's shooting more 3s than in the past, but is 34.2% something to credit him with if the league average is 36.2%

He is shooting almost 6 attempts per game. So it's a high volume of shots. Percentage isn't that bad.

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

...moving younger guys for older guys...

One point of contention:

Aside from the 1st and 2nd rounders (the 1st anticipated to be in the 13-18 range?), the actual age of players traded/ received are:

29 -  Marjanovic

27 - Bradley

25 - Harris

for:

28 - Griffin

27 - Willie Reed

23 - Brice Johnson.

I don't see the age point... And we'll see if Reed/ Johnson turn into serviceable back up big men (that we were looking for anyways). I'm especially eager to see if we have an actual backup Center in Willie Reed. A lot less Moreland/ Boban backing up Dre seems like a good thing...

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Just now, Sydney_Fife said:

He is shooting almost 6 attempts per game. So it's a high volume of shots. Percentage isn't that bad.

Yes.  

Harris has been back to shooting about Blake's percentage of late IIRC.

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1 minute ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

One point of contention:

Aside from the 1st and 2nd rounders (the 1st anticipated to be in the 13-18 range?), the actual age of players traded/ received are:

29 -  Marjanovic

27 - Bradley

25 - Harris

for:

28 - Griffin

27 - Willie Reed

23 - Brice Johnson.

I don't see the age point... And we'll see if Reed/ Johnson turn into serviceable back up big men (that we were looking for anyways). I'm especially eager to see if we have an actual backup Center in Willie Reed. A lot less Moreland/ Boban backing up Dre seems like a good thing...

FYI, Reed and Johnson are FA in the summer.

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