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Deleterious

Pistons trade for Blake Griffin

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1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

 

I got all excited when I found out Willis Reed was part of this deal, but now I read that it's Willie instead.

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7 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Would love to be a fly on the wall when SVG explains the offense to Griffin.

We run two plays, Blake.

Pass it around the perimeter for 20 seconds. First guy with a foot of separation on his defender, shoot it.

Second one is tricky so pay attention. Run next to Andre and he will hand you the ball. You shoot it.

 

On play 2, rip the ball out of Andre's hands, tackle him if you have to, otherwise, he'll shoot it

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I have no problem going against the grain like the Pelicans did when we have very little going for us and it would be hard to acquire good wings when everybody wants shooting.  Kennard better be ready to fire a now though.  

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I pretty much see Blake as being everything we always wanted Harris to be.    That contract, though.  You can't pigeonhole Griffin as a "4", he moves like 3 and facilitates like a good 2.  

Willie Reed is a nice energy big to bring off the bench.  His projections were high when he was young, then he left school early way too raw.  Physical talent is there--can block shots and rebound with agility.   Expiring deal, fringy rotation player with moments of brilliance on an average team.

Johnson can finish well around the basket, blocks some shots.  Less physically gifted than Reed, bad back injury 18 months or so ago may have dimmed his star going forward. Also expiring, low FG% in G-League for a big.

 

I understand that SVG acquired Griffin to get better quick, but if this team misses the playoffs the "backup" plan is to flip Griffin for a team that needs a really, really good #2 or great #3 scorer--right?  Send him to Orlando, Philly, LAL (if they strike out on other options), OKC or Chicago for picks and other stuff?

 

It is hard to completely hate this deal, as it could serve multiple purposes, even if it isn't what any of us had in mind.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hart said:

Is Griffin really a superstar or has the league cooled on him a little bit?  It he is a franchise player, then I think this is win for the Pistons.  

I haven't really followed basketball since the Billups trade. I know who Griffin is and he seems good so to me he's a superstar. I will say one thing, as a casual basketball fan, this has piqued my interest to the point where I will probably watch at least one game and go from there. 

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A- grade from SI

Is this new core enough to get the Pistons over the hump? We’ll find out. Of course, they’ll have to keep Griffin happy. But Detroit was already in the market for a wing player, and a second deal to bolster their rotation would be unsurprising. From a competitive standpoint, the potential reward is significant and gives them a chance to be a player in the East. It’s an admirable gambit from Stan Van Gundy and will likely remain the biggest surprise of deadline season.

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45 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Swap Bullock for Johnson or you don't have enough shooting.

 

Johnson and playoff lineup are diometrically opposed. 

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Not sure why. But multiple people are reporting we are getting a $7M trade exception from this deal.

It expires in a year.

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SVG's next magic trick will be to trade Reggie and Stanley + a 1st & 2nd round pick (secondary after the Clips get their 1st) to the Magic for Fournier and Elfrid...

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

He's absolutely a superstar when healthy but that's the thing, he's never healthy.

As Del said, superstar can have a broad or narrow definition.  I don't watch enough NBA to know where to put Griffin.  I mostly just watch the Pistons when they are not driving me insane.  It doesn't sound like he is a top 10 player.  Probably safely in the top 20 though.  

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Was Bullock still seeing any minutes at the two like he was early in the season?  This should make him a full time small forward, which is a good thing in my mind.  If we bump him to 30 minutes a game and keep Stanley under 20, I like this deal a heck of a lot more.  That's two good shooting wings on the court with him and Kennard.  Still need that facilitator though...although I am encouraged by reports are Griffin is pretty good at it himself.  

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A different take on our offense:

http://www.espn.com/fantasy/basketball/story/_/id/22259893/fantasy-basketball-snap-impressions-blake-griffin-trade

Andre Snelling, ESPN

 

The Detroit Pistons pulled off a blockbuster with the LA Clippers early Monday evening, acquiring Blake Griffin in a multiplayer deal. Here are the details:

Pistons get: Blake Griffin, Willie Reed, Brice Johnson
Clippers get: Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, Boban Marjanovic, first-round pick, second-round pick

Here's what it means from a fantasy perspective:

Lob City moves to Motown

The Pistons' offense now revolves around Griffin and Andre Drummond, a big man combo with a lot of similarities to what we saw out of Griffin and DeAndre Jordan for the Clippers. Both Drummond and Jordan are huge, athletic, traditional centers that operate out of the paint and dominate the boards. This season, Jordan is averaging 22.5 rebounds per 100 possessions (6.6 offensive rebounds, 15.9 defensive rebounds), while Drummond is averaging 22.9 rebounds per 100 possessions (7.5 offensive rebounds, 15.4 defensive rebounds). And like Jordan, Drummond is excellent at finishing lob passes with dunks, so Drummond and Griffin can re-form Lob City in the Motor City.

However, Drummond is a more dynamic offensive player than Jordan ever has been.

Jordan is excellent at being a garbage man, finishing lobs, putbacks or pick-and-roll dives to the rim with dunks; but he's not someone the Clippers have ever run their offense through. Jordan has little back-to-the-basket game on offense, and he also isn't much of a passer (1.8 assists to 2.6 turnovers per 100 possessions). This makes Jordan an efficient finisher but not much of an individual threat.

Meanwhile, Drummond is a key offensive cog for the Pistons, netting 5.8 assists to 4.2 turnovers per 100 possessions as one of the main decision-makers in the offense. Drummond also is a more dynamic defensive player, at least as far as being active around the rim and in the passing lanes, averaging 2.3 steals and 2.1 blocks per 100 possessions, as compared to Jordan's 0.7 steals and 1.5 blocks.

Put this together, and the new-look Pistons' front line is actually more dynamic than what we saw with Lob City in L.A. Drummond will continue to vacuum the glass, which means that Griffin is unlikely to improve much on his 7.9 rebounds per game (11.2 rebounds per 100 possessions) that he was averaging for the Clippers. Griffin also is a proven decision-maker and offensive cog; however, he currently is averaging 5.4 assists per game (7.7 assists per 100 possessions) from the power forward spot. This tells me two things about the Pistons' new offense:

  1. Griffin and Drummond should be able to play the two-man game, running a lot of high-low action, with each drawing attention and facilitating for the other off the pass.

  2. The Pistons' perimeter players will have less playmaking responsibility than ever before, meaning that they can get positive minutes from 3-and-D wings and/or scoring combo-type lead guards without needing as much floor generalship.

This is important, because with Harris and Bradley sent to LA, the Pistons are now full of 3-point shooting wings and combo lead-guard types. Reggie Bullock(1.5 3 PPG, 44 3FG%, available in 98.5 percent of leagues), Stanley Johnson (1.0 3PG, 28 3FG%, available in 98.8 percent of leagues), Anthony Tolliver (1.7 3PG, 40 3FG%, available in 99.5 percent of leagues) and rookie Luke Kennard (1.1 3PG, 43 3FG%, available in 98.3 percent of leagues) are now the four most tenured wings on roster, and all of them have the 3-ball as a big part of their games.

All four of them will likely take on larger roles, and the three shooting 40 percent or better from behind the arc all have reasonable upside to knock down more than two treys per game moving forward. Barring more moves, the Pistons wings suddenly look to be solid sources of 3-pointers as fantasy role players.

This also frees up Ish Smith and, when he gets healthy, Reggie Jackson to be what they truly are: scoring guards in point guard bodies. Smith will have a bit of trouble taking advantage of these extra opportunities because he's not a shooter, but Jackson has made at least one 3-pointer at between 33 percent and 36 percent from behind the arc five times in his career. He averaged almost 19 points in 2015-16, his first full season in Detroit as a score-first guard in a role that he may be able to reprise with the new-look Pistons.

Griffin is also strong at running the pick and roll/pop game. Per Second Spectrum, he has set 561 direct picks which have generated 0.934 points/direct pick this season, a volume and scoring efficiency that rivals new teammate Drummond 876 direct picks, 0.971 points/direct pick) but dwarfs any other Pistons player (no other Piston set more than 258 direct picks, and no rotation player's picks produced more than 0.903 points/direct pick). Jackson, meanwhile, is very adept as the ballhandler in the pick and roll/pop game, producing 0.985 points/direct pick as the ballhandler on 666 direct picks. Smith is less so, but still effective at 0.909 points/direct pick on 518 direct picks.

Put this all together and, barring further trades, the fantasy news out of Detroit is good with this move. Griffin's numbers should look similar to what we saw in Los Angeles, with perhaps a slight uptick in scoring opportunities (minus a dominant teammate scorer like Lou Williams) but similar rebounding and assist numbers. Drummond's numbers also likely don't change much, though the attention that Griffin draws and the high-low game could lead to more efficient scoring opportunities for the big man. The wings on the team all project to potentially rosterable 3-point role players, while Smith and, eventually, Jackson should see an uptick in scoring, a possible downtick in assists but an overall more effective offensive game with more ability to run their preferred pick and roll/pop game and better scoring opportunities.

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ummm...that person just wrote that stanley johnson has the 3 pointer as a big part of his game.

no.  no he does not.

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It seems to me that Kennard is emerging as a key to the Pistons future. A 40% 3pt assassin sounds sounds like perfect yang for a dominant front court yin. If Jackson returns and can provide occasional dribble penetration and get FT opportunities, you would have team that can do a lot more more things than they have been doing now.  A couple of questions would be whether Jackson pouts with the reduction of time the ball in his hands, and what to do at the other forward spot. I can understand playing Stanley as a development project when you are resigned to losing, but if you have just gone all in to make a run the rest of this year, Stanley either has to force someone to defend him  (i.e. be able to make a shot)  or i don't really want to keep playing him with Drummond for 30 minutes a night.

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The past few years the Clippers were a 50-55 win, 3-5ish seed, and an early 1st or 2nd round exit in the playoffs.  Now, let's compare that squad to the current Pistons.  The Clippers had a better Blake Griffin than we're getting, a DeAndre Jordan who is at least Drummond's equal, and Chris Paul - who is light years ahead of Reggie, when healthy.  Plus, their supporting cast was better (and their coaching).  So, I don't see how this makes the Pistons more than a mid-40s win team, at best.  And, I feel the Clippers got the better of the deal by getting 2 starters for 1 (who is often injured).  This does bring some excitement back to the Pistons...but, let's hope we're not getting a disgruntled Griffin.  But, seriously, the Pistons' problem is point guard...this does not address that hole at all.  And, they gave up their only real bargaining chips (Bradley, Harris) to get a PG.  

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1 hour ago, azzurri said:

The past few years the Clippers were a 50-55 win, 3-5ish seed, and an early 1st or 2nd round exit in the playoffs.  Now, let's compare that squad to the current Pistons.  The Clippers had a better Blake Griffin than we're getting, a DeAndre Jordan who is at least Drummond's equal, and Chris Paul - who is light years ahead of Reggie, when healthy.  Plus, their supporting cast was better (and their coaching).  So, I don't see how this makes the Pistons more than a mid-40s win team, at best.  And, I feel the Clippers got the better of the deal by getting 2 starters for 1 (who is often injured).  This does bring some excitement back to the Pistons...but, let's hope we're not getting a disgruntled Griffin.  But, seriously, the Pistons' problem is point guard...this does not address that hole at all.  And, they gave up their only real bargaining chips (Bradley, Harris) to get a PG.  

I assume Stan must be planning to run some kind of inside out kind of game - if you can get 10-12 assists a night from Griffin and Drummond......

You can think back to a front court dominated team like the old Celtics - Dennis Johnson wasn't asked to do a whole lot. Of course the game isn't comparable, but the idea of inverting roles a little would not be anything new. That said, I don't disagree with your premise that even with a healthy Griffin and Jackson, all they are going to do is be middling good - well maybe if Kennard explodes to the upside, but that would be pure long shot luck. But maybe the owner and GM have looked at the prospects and decided that is the best they can do for while. Try and ride Drummond and Griffin for some period then blow it up if/when Andre has lost his jump and/or Girffin's injuries overtake the rest of his talent. Sometimes when there is no clear path to where you want to go, you just have to move somewhere -  so you pick somewhere else and hope that once you get there a next step becomes more possible from there?

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The successor to Van Gundy is going to have a lot of fun untangled this mess.

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3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

The successor to Van Gundy is going to have a lot of fun untangled this mess.

My thoughts too.   Desperation move by Van Gundy to get arses in the seats at that empty new arena (both teams aren't drawing).    Van Gundy crippled the future by giving away a draft pick and running up the team cap.      Well, I guess you can say, based on history, that SVG would have screwed up the draft pick and he won't have to worry about the coming cap nightmare because he'll be doing TV by then.     

Too bad, because I like SVG's personality.  I like that he actually answers questions with REAL answers.  He's the opposite of Jim Caldwell, who treated the media like garbage.      But SVG will be gone soon because when Griffin plays 40 games a year, he can't help your team.     

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A franchise like the Pistons has to make deals like this. You either have to be all in to win or all in to tank. Griffin immediately becomes the best player to play for the Pistons in 10-12 years. He's signed long-term for a ton of money, but at least they have the security that he is staying here and they can pair him with Drummond. 

Let's say LeBron goes west next year and the Cavs become a mess. It's not inconceivable that the Pistons would have a CHANCE to win a playoff series or two next season. Ultimately that's what people want, a winner. You don't win in the NBA without a star, and the Pistons got one. A GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY GET TO THE FOUL LINE. WHAT A CONCEPT.

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