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Sydney_Fife

Fire Stan Van Gundy

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It’s official. I’m done. This team is a dumpster fire with no hope for the future. They are terrible. He has totally screwed this team up with bad contracts, poor drafting, and abysmal coaching. 

Im finished with this guy. Please fire him. 

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Drafting Johnson over Booker and Turner. 

Trading Dinwiddie for nothing when we had a fragile PG in the first place. 

7 million to Galloway. 7 million to Boban.

The total lack of offensive imagination. Bad inbounds plays. Lack of using Boban. 

Playing Stanley Johnson and allowing him to fire away. 

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I think I'm ok waiting till the season is over.

I don't want the players responding to a new coach and sneaking into the playoffs just to get hammered in the first round.

If I liked the future of this team more, I would take the playoff experience. But I 100% think this has to be a complete rebuild. I want the lottery pick.

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5 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I think I'm ok waiting till the season is over.

I don't want the players responding to a new coach and sneaking into the playoffs just to get hammered in the first round.

If I liked the future of this team more, I would take the playoff experience. But I 100% think this has to be a complete rebuild. I want the lottery pick.

Too bad we blew a high lottery pick with that hot start.  I do agree about the complete rebuild. 

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Maybe I've been missing the national segments on this, but I can't believe the national media isn't bringing this up more especially after the Jason Kidd firing. I'm hearing them talk about how much of a nose dive we've taken, but I'm not hearing them call for SVG's head.

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not looking good. (stop the Dinwiddie stuff...he was junk when we let him go) couldn't even make it onto a roster with no PG after we traded him. I'm happy that he figured it out, but he didn't look like an NBA player his last year here and he's at best a back-up PG on an even decent team.

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i dont fault stan for dinwiddie.  he didnt look like an nba player when he was here and he couldnt even make the bulls who were trotting out worthless michael carter williams and cam payne at point guard.

he played in the summer league that year and couldnt score.  he really didnt look like anything.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i dont fault stan for dinwiddie.  he didnt look like an nba player when he was here and he couldnt even make the bulls who were trotting out worthless michael carter williams and cam payne at point guard.

he played in the summer league that year and couldnt score.  he really didnt look like anything.

stop copying me

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Just now, DaBishop said:

stop copying me

stop copying me

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7 minutes ago, DaBishop said:

not looking good. (stop the Dinwiddie stuff...he was junk when we let him go) couldn't even make it onto a roster with no PG after we traded him. I'm happy that he figured it out, but he didn't look like an NBA player his last year here and he's at best a back-up PG on an even decent team.

I certainly will not stop the Dinwiddie stuff.  SVG knew he was drafting a guy coming off major surgery who needed time to both develop and heal.  It can be argued he didn't give SD enough time to do either.  He has just turned 23 when he was let go, where was the fire?  He played in 46 games in two years.  

The Nets may very well start SD next to Russell in order to let Russell play off the ball once Russell gets healthy.  Dinwiddie second in the L in A:TO and is averaging 2.3 AST more than Ish this year with average 3pt shooting.

 

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This team is not a "dumpster fire". 
 
1) We have all of our future draft picks. That is the most important part of a rebuild. If you were like Brooklyn and had a bad team with no draft picks, you are screwed. The Pistons can at least bank on adding rookies. 
 
2) At a minimum 2 of our 5 starters can easily be moved for assets. Bradley (free agent at the end of the season) and Tobias (free agent at the end of next season) are guys who contenders would want. Want to blow it up? Send them packing and we are well on our way.  
 
3) Drummond is showing that he is at a minimum good enough to be a damn good supporting player to a star. Had he come back this season and bombed out, we would be screwed with his contract. But right now, I can live with him. 
 
4) We are approaching the end of Reggie's contract (2 more years left), which will make it easier to stomach. We aren't locked in for 5 more years of his health issues.
 
5) I think Kennard is going to be a good starter in this league. So there is a young guy you can develop moving forward. 

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15 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

I certainly will not stop the Dinwiddie stuff.  SVG knew he was drafting a guy coming off major surgery who needed time to both develop and heal.  It can be argued he didn't give SD enough time to do either.  He has just turned 23 when he was let go, where was the fire?  He played in 46 games in two years.  

The Nets may very well start SD next to Russell in order to let Russell play off the ball once Russell gets healthy.  Dinwiddie second in the L in A:TO and is averaging 2.3 AST more than Ish this year with average 3pt shooting.

 

You are mad that SVG didn't predict that a 2nd round pick who looked awful in his first 2 seasons would end up being a solid starter. Cool. 


Dinwiddie is fine. But he isn't making or breaking your team. If we kept him, you wouldn't say that we should keep SVG. 

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The larger point for me is that the Pistons were not at a place in their trajectory where it made sense to be giving up on young players for overpaid veterans.

If you sour on Dinwiddie, fine, but he should be replaced with another young player with upside potential that you like better.  Otherwise you hang onto him.

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15 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

You are mad that SVG didn't predict that a 2nd round pick who looked awful in his first 2 seasons would end up being a solid starter. Cool. 


Dinwiddie is fine. But he isn't making or breaking your team. If we kept him, you wouldn't say that we should keep SVG. 

Dinwiddie was the only pick of SVG's first draft here, and SVG reportedly really liked him for the reasons the Nets like him now.

The guy was drafted with the understanding that he was hurt, needed time to recover and needed time to develop as a guy who just turned 20.

NBA Draft.net  graded him high (92) coming out of college, and they also identified the same weaknesses we saw in Detroit.  They thought he was a first-round talent anyways, just like SVG did, in spite of it.

Quote

NBA Comparison: Brian Shaw

Strengths: Dinwiddie is a dual offensive threat, who averaged 18.9 points and 4.1 assists per 40 minutes over his last two seasons at Colorado … Dangerous in transition – glides down the floor and slithers his way to the basket … Smooth. Good body control and great touch on his floaters … Uses nifty hop and Euro steps to get to the rim… Draws a bunch of fouls, averaging 9 FTA per 40 over his last two seasons at CU … Excellent free-throw shooter, making better than 81 percent of his attempts in each of his three seasons at CU … Solid three-point shooter, making more than 41 percent of his attempts in two of his three seasons with the Buffalos … Very effective scoring and finding open perimeter shooters when driving off the pick and roll … Tallest player classified as a point guard at the combine – his height allows him to shoot unimpeded and easily find open teammates … Makes crisp interior passes … Good off-the-ball defense – denies very well … Fast – gets down the floor quickly and can stick with talented scorers, such as Marcus Smart and Andrew Wiggins, on defense … High character guy with good intelligence. Seemingly a good teammate – enthusiastic, likable, expressive, involved, and shares the ball …

Weaknesses: Dinwiddie's most glaring weakness is his lack of assertiveness and consistency. Scouts often wonder why his level of intensity is not at the same level at all time. Should look to be a little more selfish (assertive). Has standout ability but doesn't always take it upon himself to be the star that he should be ... Still recovering from a torn ACL that he suffered in January … Questionable whether he is a true point guard or more a combo – frequently played off the ball at CU, though excels in ball handling and passing … Slender build – bounces off stronger players on both ends of the floor … Avoids contact when driving – prefers to pull up or pass out rather than go all the way to the hole … Limited dribble moves … Doesn’t show much ability to create his own shot, frequently relying of screens to get open … Too dependent on his right hand – shoots with his right on drives to the left side of the rim… Easily picked off by screens on the defensive side of the ball, which is seemingly due to a combination of a lack of awareness and strength ...

Notes: At the time of Dinwiddie’s knee injury, CU was 14-2 and ranked 15th in the country. At the time, he was averaging 14.7 points and 3.8 assists per game and shooting 46.6 percent from the field and 41.3 percent from the 3-point line ... Without him, the Buffalos were a sub-500 team, losing 10 of 19 games … In all-time school history, he ranks third in free throw percentage (.830) and fourth in 3-point field goal percentage (.386) … Confident and engaging, Dinwiddie is the self-proclaimed “Mayor,” and a fan favorite. Received the most votes by the fans at Pachoops.com for having the best moustache in the conference …

Outlook: Assuming that he can regain his past form, Dinwiddie should be a solid NBA player ... Would fit well alongside an undersized scorer like Monta Ellis ... He relies heavily on screens to get shots, is not an especially gifted ball handler, is a little too upright and stiff to defend smaller, quicker guards, and perhaps most importantly, spent a great deal of time playing off the ball in college… If he wasn’t coming off a serious knee injury, Dinwiddie would be a good bet to be drafted late in the first round, but now, he appears destined to go somewhere in the second… 

A guy like Hinkie would be a good fit as GM in Detroit.  He would bring a plan AND follow through.

12 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The larger point for me is that the Pistons were not at a place in their trajectory where it made sense to be giving up on young players for overpaid veterans.

If you sour on Dinwiddie, fine, but he should be replaced with another young player with upside potential that you like better.  Otherwise you hang onto him.

Yes.

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26 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:


Dinwiddie is fine. But he isn't making or breaking your team. If we kept him, you wouldn't say that we should keep SVG. 

Keep Dinwiddie, does SVG need to Sign Galloway?  Does SVG have to sign Byucks and play him?

Part of the larger problem is that SVG goes out and gets guys who have skills that can help the Pistons and then doesn't put them in a position to be their most effective.  Kennard should have been spearheading that second unit all season, getting a ton of touches and looks, for example.  Boban is an obvious example.  You could even argue that Ellenson, who can score and rebound just fine, deserves an extended look on a team that struggles to score points and rebound.  Horses for courses, stand behind the guys you spend money on and draft.

SVG's use of stopgaps (Byucks, Moreland, AT) instead of players he staked his reputation on (Dinwiddie, Boban, Kennard, Ellenson) is problematic for me and a big part of the reason he should be fired.  Make your read, make your plan, go with it.

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8 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Dinwiddie was the only pick of SVG's first draft here, and SVG reportedly really liked him for the reasons the Nets like him now.

The guy was drafted with the understanding that he was hurt, needed time to recover and needed time to develop as a guy who just turned 20.

NBA Draft.net  graded him high (92) coming out of college, and they also identified the same weaknesses we saw in Detroit.  They thought he was a first-round talent anyways, just like SVG did, in spite of it.

A guy like Hinkie would be a good fit as GM in Detroit.  He would bring a plan AND follow through.

Yes.

Dinwiddie was passed up 37 times in the draft. He then struggled nearly every time he stepped on the court, both in the NBA and in the G-League. 
 
Even now, he is a fine player. But certainly not someone you are losing sleep over. 
 

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3 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Keep Dinwiddie, does SVG need to Sign Galloway?  Does SVG have to sign Byucks and play him?

Part of the larger problem is that SVG goes out and gets guys who have skills that can help the Pistons and then doesn't put them in a position to be their most effective.  Kennard should have been spearheading that second unit all season, getting a ton of touches and looks, for example.  Boban is an obvious example.  You could even argue that Ellenson, who can score and rebound just fine, deserves an extended look on a team that struggles to score points and rebound.  Horses for courses, stand behind the guys you spend money on and draft.

SVG's use of stopgaps (Byucks, Moreland, AT) instead of players he staked his reputation on (Dinwiddie, Boban, Kennard, Ellenson) is problematic for me and a big part of the reason he should be fired.  Make your read, make your plan, go with it.

 
 
Kennard is averaging 18 MPG as a rookie. His minutes have increased every month this season, from 13.3, to 17.2, to 17.7 to 21.5
 
SVG is increasing his load and responsibility. Just because he didn't start him from Day 1 doesn't mean he is holding him back. 
 
As far as Boban - bad signing. Isn't working out, dude isn't a rotational player in the NBA today. 

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1 minute ago, 313DetroitCity said:
Dinwiddie was passed up 37 times in the draft. He then struggled nearly every time he stepped on the court, both in the NBA and in the G-League. 
 
Even now, he is a fine player. But certainly not someone you are losing sleep over. 
 

He was passed over due to injury, and he was always going to need to develop.  I'm not sure how this hard to grasp as the evaluation says as much.  Stan rushed him and got frustrated, and that has been a pattern for him.

Stan then had to spend good money and hardcap the team to cover.

I don't lose sleep of this edition of the Pistons, but it is frustrating to see the mismanagement that has taken place over the past several years going back to Joe D's final years.

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I will give Stan props for no longer yanking Kennard every time he screws up. I think that really hurts a young player.

Young guys are going to make a bunch of mistakes. As long as they hustle I say leave him in and let him play through the mistakes. And Stan has done that the past few weeks.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

He was passed over due to injury, and he was always going to need to develop.  I'm not sure how this hard to grasp as the evaluation says as much.  Stan rushed him and got frustrated, and that has been a pattern for him.

Stan then had to spend good money and hardcap the team to cover.

I don't lose sleep of this edition of the Pistons, but it is frustrating to see the mismanagement that has taken place over the past several years going back to Joe D's final years.

Dinwiddie was a 3 year player in college. Guys like that get less time to develop than freshmen who leave college. 

Dinwiddie then got 2 years to prove himself with the Pistons, and couldn't even play well in the G-League. SVG is not a savant who can predict that a guy who is struggling like that will go on to be a solid rotational player. 

There is plenty you can criticize about SVG. But getting hung up over a 2nd round pick not doing well here and then being okay on a bad team is just nitpicking. 

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2 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I will give Stan props for no longer yanking Kennard every time he screws up. I think that really hurts a young player.

Young guys are going to make a bunch of mistakes. As long as they hustle I say leave him in and let him play through the mistakes. And Stan has done that the past few weeks.

There is a fine line between letting young players play through any mistake and yanking them too easy. There have been times where SVG kept him on too short of a leash, but when a rookie makes dumb mistakes and/or isn't hustling, there is value in pulling them and holding them responsible as a professional. 

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12 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:
 
 
Kennard is averaging 18 MPG as a rookie. His minutes have increased every month this season, from 13.3, to 17.2, to 17.7 to 21.5
 
SVG is increasing his load and responsibility. Just because he didn't start him from Day 1 doesn't mean he is holding him back. 
 
As far as Boban - bad signing. Isn't working out, dude isn't a rotational player in the NBA today. 

I don't think you understand what I said about Kennard.

Kennard needed to be the go-to scorer on the second unit early on, and get touches/looks and there are still games where SVG fails to put the ball in the kid's hands on a regular basis.  He's not out there for his defense, he's out there to create offense.

Boban is one of the bests offensive post players in the league and a plus passer at the position.  There are situations where SVG has opted not to play Boban in spite of the situation being that he would face a stationary big--that's on SVG.  Further, if you have a guy like Boban and your team can't score it is probably ok to give him more burn.

Boban will make $9M next year.

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4 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I will give Stan props for no longer yanking Kennard every time he screws up. I think that really hurts a young player.

Young guys are going to make a bunch of mistakes. As long as they hustle I say leave him in and let him play through the mistakes. And Stan has done that the past few weeks.

I'll grant him that.

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1 minute ago, mickeyb105 said:

Boban is one of the best post players in the league and a plus passer at the position. 

I don't even know how to respond. 

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