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The Larry Nassar thing............

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11 hours ago, Buddha said:

Thanks for your contribution.  Paula LaVigne wrote that article and she's written crap since day 1 on this.  Her articles have been full of inaccuracies but it's good to pile on.

Perhaps you want to comment on this regarding "trash"?

University of Michigan opera professor, husband charged with sexual assault in Texas

Quote

 

University of Michigan professor David Daniels, a world-famous opera countertenor, and his husband Scott Walters were arrested in Ann Arbor on Tuesday, Jan. 29, according to police.

The two face extradition to Texas, where they’re accused of raping a 23-year-old singer.

 

EMFH3ZBPHJCW3GOJM5NMBRXZ4U.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, LooseGoose said:

Thanks for your contribution.  Paula LaVigne wrote that article and she's written crap since day 1 on this.  Her articles have been full of inaccuracies but it's good to pile on.

Perhaps you want to comment on this regarding "trash"?

University of Michigan opera professor, husband charged with sexual assault in Texas

EMFH3ZBPHJCW3GOJM5NMBRXZ4U.jpg

 

deleted post for excessive snarkiness.

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M has bounced a couple of other faculty over the last year or so also - I don't know if they are paying more attention or if that is just the natural fail rate for an institution that large.

So does MSU run its own campus police force (UM has for maybe 20 yrs now)? It may seem counter intuitive, but I think there may be less potential for things to get swept under the rug when there are two independent police forces interacting over reports.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

M has bounced a couple of other faculty over the last year or so also - I don't know if they are paying more attention or if that is just the natural fail rate for an institution that large.

So does MSU run its own campus police force (UM has for maybe 20 yrs now)? It may seem counter intuitive, but I think there may be less potential for things to get swept under the rug when there are two independent police forces interacting over reports.

It wasn't just campus police.   At least 2 local police forces had reports that were not pursued or dismissed.   The Ingham county prosecutor (a UM Grad so no MSU lackey)didn't file charges on another report.   US Gymnastics failed to follow up on reports.   It was a systemic failure in every way.  There is good reporting out there on all of this, I'm not excusing anyone.  But Paula LaVigne's reporting has been awful and full of inaccuracies from day 1.

My response to Buddha was simply a glass houses type post.   This **** happens everywhere and these people are amazingly able to fool people.   But if he feels better about himself with his "trash university" line I'm happy for him.   Just plays into the whole Denny Stolz observation.

 

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3 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

Thanks for your contribution.  Paula LaVigne wrote that article and she's written crap since day 1 on this.  Her articles have been full of inaccuracies but it's good to pile on.

Perhaps you want to comment on this regarding "trash"?

University of Michigan opera professor, husband charged with sexual assault in Texas

EMFH3ZBPHJCW3GOJM5NMBRXZ4U.jpg

 

My comment is that they look more like Michigan State people than Michigan ones.

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26 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

My comment is that they look more like Michigan State people than Michigan ones.

LOL - almost no-one looks good in a mug shot. This is prolly more how Daniels thinks of himself...

Image result for david daniels

;)

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20 hours ago, Buddha said:

larry nasser happens everywhere.  got it.

That's not what I said, but you know that.

Go ahead and revel in it until the day it strikes closer to home.

My point was that these monsters are very good at what they do and fool even those closest to them.  That aspect has nothing to do with MSU or any other employer.   For examples look to the cop/killer they just caught after 40 years in CA, the BTK killer and numerous other sexual predators/serial killers.

As I said earlier it's obvious there were failures at MSU.   MSU has borne the brunt of it and rightly so, but the same failures occurred in different degrees at USA Gymnastics, the Lansing Police, the Meridian township police, the Ingham County prosecutors office, the Karolyi gymnastics place in TX, TwiStars gymnastics, and maybe more.   Those are the places that I know of off the top of my head that had early warnings and did nothing/failed.   Nassar as most of these predators are, was very good at fooling people.

I feel terribly for these girls/women and wish that more of them had screamed loud and long earlier - someone, somewhere would have surely listened to them.

 

 

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7 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

That's not what I said, but you know that.

Go ahead and revel in it until the day it strikes closer to home.

My point was that these monsters are very good at what they do and fool even those closest to them.  That aspect has nothing to do with MSU or any other employer.   For examples look to the cop/killer they just caught after 40 years in CA, the BTK killer and numerous other sexual predators/serial killers.

As I said earlier it's obvious there were failures at MSU.   MSU has borne the brunt of it and rightly so, but the same failures occurred in different degrees at USA Gymnastics, the Lansing Police, the Meridian township police, the Ingham County prosecutors office, the Karolyi gymnastics place in TX, TwiStars gymnastics, and maybe more.   Those are the places that I know of off the top of my head that had early warnings and did nothing/failed.   Nassar as most of these predators are, was very good at fooling people.

I feel terribly for these girls/women and wish that more of them had screamed loud and long earlier - someone, somewhere would have surely listened to them.

 

 

 

look, you like to make fun of michigan all the time and talk all sorts of smack when sparty is whooping up on their alleged big brothers.  well, you can take some smack back when msu screws the proverbial pooch.

what went on at msu is an institutional failure.  and some of us have actually been paying attention to saint mike dantonio and all the many many many discipline problems associated with spartan football for years.  glenn winston anyone?

its only when a truly horrific thing like the nasser scandal happens that a light gets shone on michigan state and its horrible disciplinary problems and tom izzo's sudden inability to remember who was staying at his house.

every school with a major football amd basketball program has kids who violate the rules and do stupid stuff.  every school has kids who are bad apples and abuse other students, but sparty seems to have let a lot of them back into school and let them do it again.

come on sparty.  dont be ohio state.  youre better than that.

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7 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

That's not what I said, but you know that.

Go ahead and revel in it until the day it strikes closer to home.

My point was that these monsters are very good at what they do and fool even those closest to them.  That aspect has nothing to do with MSU or any other employer.   For examples look to the cop/killer they just caught after 40 years in CA, the BTK killer and numerous other sexual predators/serial killers.

As I said earlier it's obvious there were failures at MSU.   MSU has borne the brunt of it and rightly so, but the same failures occurred in different degrees at USA Gymnastics, the Lansing Police, the Meridian township police, the Ingham County prosecutors office, the Karolyi gymnastics place in TX, TwiStars gymnastics, and maybe more.   Those are the places that I know of off the top of my head that had early warnings and did nothing/failed.   Nassar as most of these predators are, was very good at fooling people.

I feel terribly for these girls/women and wish that more of them had screamed loud and long earlier - someone, somewhere would have surely listened to them.

 

 

While MSU deserves a lot of criticism for how it handled the allegations initially and the various failures of many individuals at the time, I agree with you that it can be unfair to levy blame against the university as a whole. 

HOWEVA

I think most of the criticism now directed at the university is based more on the way it acted after the fact and after nassar had already been uncovered, in particular the words and actions of its now two former presidents and the board members. 

You can argue that Engler was brought in precisely to be the scapegoat, but he still made the school look like trash.

 

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40 minutes ago, Shelton said:

While MSU deserves a lot of criticism for how it handled the allegations initially and the various failures of many individuals at the time, I agree with you that it can be unfair to levy blame against the university as a whole. 

HOWEVA

I think most of the criticism now directed at the university is based more on the way it acted after the fact and after nassar had already been uncovered, in particular the words and actions of its now two former presidents and the board members. 

You can argue that Engler was brought in precisely to be the scapegoat, but he still made the school look like trash.

Engler accomplished some of the things he was brought in to do - he definitely needed a better filter on his mouth.

He squelched some of the political stuff on funding, he served as a much better object/focus of hatred than Lou Simon ever did and he did make some very good decisions early on. He got a settlement reached that was reasonable to all sides which needed to be done ASAP.   In sense he was brought on to be a bad guy/hatchet man and he did that.

Had he been able to control his mouth he probably would have made it until they hired a permanent replacement.  As it was I fully supported the decision to cut him loose and really it should have been done last fall.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, LooseGoose said:

Engler accomplished some of the things he was brought in to do - he definitely needed a better filter on his mouth.

He squelched some of the political stuff on funding, he served as a much better object/focus of hatred than Lou Simon ever did and he did make some very good decisions early on. He got a settlement reached that was reasonable to all sides which needed to be done ASAP.   In sense he was brought on to be a bad guy/hatchet man and he did that.

Had he been able to control his mouth he probably would have made it until they hired a permanent replacement.  As it was I fully supported the decision to cut him loose and really it should have been done last fall.

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless, he was a bad look for the university. If you don’t want people to call your school trash, don’t hire a guy that makes your school look like trash. 

I feel like all of the above things you list as being accomplished by him could have been accomplished by someone who didn’t embarrass the university. 

The fact that they continued to stick with him long after he started making them look bad is just another reason to look negatively at the school. 

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7 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Regardless, he was a bad look for the university. If you don’t want people to call your school trash, don’t hire a guy that makes your school look like trash. 

I feel like all of the above things you list as being accomplished by him could have been accomplished by someone who didn’t embarrass the university. 

The fact that they continued to stick with him long after he started making them look bad is just another reason to look negatively at the school. 

I would agree with you on everything except possibly the political stuff.   One of the Detroit papers had a pretty good summary of his tenure - if I see it again I'll link you.

And although I agree with you in general I think there would have been justifiable anger directed at anyone that was the "face" of MSU at that point in time.   And yes it might have not been as bad toward another but it would have only been some degree less, it still would have existed.

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2 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I would agree with you on everything except possibly the political stuff.   One of the Detroit papers had a pretty good summary of his tenure - if I see it again I'll link you.

And although I agree with you in general I think there would have been justifiable anger directed at anyone that was the "face" of MSU at that point in time.   And yes it might have not been as bad toward another but it would have only been some degree less, it still would have existed.

That’s fine. It’s all speculation anyway. I just thought it was important to clarify that a lot of the negativity toward the school and this nassar saga is as much if not more directed to the response after he had been fully exposed. They have appeared obstructionist and unfeeling and downright resentful of the victims.

The specific stories about which employee did which thing incorrectly years ago don’t really move the needle much for me. To me, those are issues for each individual and not necessarily the university just because they happened to work there. 

That’s the same reason I don’t really care if a Michigan professor committed an assault. There are monsters everywhere. It has little to do with their employer, at least in the vast majority of cases. 

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On 1/25/2019 at 10:21 AM, Gehringer_2 said:

Everyone need to understand that anything you send to the internet is public (other than under a separate PGP wrapper). Anyone who doesn't understand that shouldn't be running any major institution either.

Public or leakable?   Anything you put to paper is leakable.   Anything you speak may be leakable, what with smartphones that record.   What we're really dealing with is the end of privacy.   And we gave it away.

 

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