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The Larry Nassar thing............

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11 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

I'm saddened and disappointed by it, because I've regarded MSU as a good clean program that is able to get the most from its students.  It also doesn't bode well for the state of Michigan to have this kind of scandal and corruption associated with it.

Don't get me wrong, I feel the same. It's unfortunate that the state of Michigan, and a massive public university within it will be associated with this for eternity.

But I am so sickened by what has apparently occurred, that I think the only way to recover is to start anew.

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13 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

I'm saddened and disappointed by it, because I've regarded MSU as a good clean program that is able to get the most from its students.  It also doesn't bode well for the state of Michigan to have this kind of scandal and corruption associated with it.

I feel like a f'ing moron for considering Dantonio and Izzo to be above this sort of crap.  Dantonio had his missteps with some player punishments previously, but I never imagined it got to this level.  And in retrospect that was probably me just burying my head in the sand since I had my green and white glasses on.

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The Appling and Payne thing has been known for a while. I’m actually frustrated with myself for sort of forgetting about it. I recall at the time thinking it was typical big program deference to its players and if they weren’t charged or convicted or something that it wasn’t surprising that Izzo would have kept him on the team. I was so blinded by the way programs are known to handle this that it never even crossed my mind that they would have been kicked off the team. 

Michigan of course has the Brendan Gibbons case. 

Regardless of any comparisons, now is the time to make things right. I hope athletic departments across the country and taking a hard look at themselves right now and thinking twice about making efforts to sweep accusations under the rug and protecting their players from facing the consequences of things like this. 

It would not surprise me if Izzo and Dantonio don’t survive this. Hollis and Simon aren’t there anymore. The university is reeling. 

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24 minutes ago, Shelton said:

 

It would not surprise me if Izzo and Dantonio don’t survive this. 

I really hope they do not.

I also forgot about the Appling/Payne stuff.  I am not even sure if I knew they were the two under accusation, I have a vivid memory of reading about it when they weren't named in my Environmental Law class, but other than that I didn't follow it closely.  Head in the sand...

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Wondering who the adults will be here. At Penn State, the Board of Trustees did their job and terminated Curley and Paterno. No one on MSU's board has yet to act like they would be willing to do the same and take control of the situation.

To their credit, the students at MSU have thus far acted far better than those did at Penn State who rioted. We'll see if that remains true if Izzo and Dantonio are forced out one way or another.

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59 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Wondering who the adults will be here. At Penn State, the Board of Trustees did their job and terminated Curley and Paterno. No one on MSU's board has yet to act like they would be willing to do the same and take control of the situation.

To their credit, the students at MSU have thus far acted far better than those did at Penn State who rioted. We'll see if that remains true if Izzo and Dantonio are forced out one way or another.

Yeah. It’s one thing to demand that the 70 year old lady resign. Or to support wanting the hammer to drop on Hollis for the conduct of the gymnastics program. That’s a pretty easy position to take. 

But when it comes to the two celebrity coaches, I’m guessing a lot of fans would sing a different tune. I expect a lot of “this stuff happens at other programs and is dealt with the same way. So and so was suspended. There were no charges filed. Blah blah blah.” 

The Nassar crimes were so out of the ordinary (and it’s a shame that sexual assault by athletes is something that could even be considered ordinary) that no one with any small amount of humanity could say anything other than “administrators out!”

This is sort of what I was referring to in my earlier post saying this Nassar case wasn’t about fandom. Now it is becoming about fandom. There were no Nassar fans or Simon fans or gymnastics fans that may have had their judgment clouded by their bias toward the subject. 

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this stuff has been common knowledge about msu players for a long time.  who didnt know about appling anf payne?  who didnt read about all the msu football crap last year?  and the year before?  and the year before?  glenn winston anyone?

come on.  the idea that dantonio was running a clean program is ludicrous for anyone with two eyes not wearing green and white glasses.

where's mike valenti today?  

and tom izzo.  him and coach k, the only two coaches who sign top 5 bball recruits but dont break any rules.  give me a break.

msu should be worried because this is how you go on long term probation.  every program breaks the rules, but when you get publicly outed and the powers that be are embarassed they start looking at you more closely.

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theyre getting killed on the radio here.  demanding izzo and dantonio to be fired.

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12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

this stuff has been common knowledge about msu players for a long time.  who didnt know about appling anf payne?  who didnt read about all the msu football crap last year?  and the year before?  and the year before?  glenn winston anyone?

come on.  the idea that dantonio was running a clean program is ludicrous for anyone with two eyes not wearing green and white glasses.

where's mike valenti today?  

and tom izzo.  him and coach k, the only two coaches who sign top 5 bball recruits but dont break any rules.  give me a break.

msu should be worried because this is how you go on long term probation.  every program breaks the rules, but when you get publicly outed and the powers that be are embarassed they start looking at you more closely.

Exactly. Why the appling and Payne stuff never got any traction in the media is beyond me. 

For all the accolades the media is getting for uncovering the Nassar story and covering the impact statements this past week, the same media looked the other way and downplayed these other stories. 

You are right in that every program breaks the rules. It works out until you get caught. Some programs break the rules worse than others. If you’re lucky, you fudged the grades and gave some impermissible benefits. 

But covering up and not punishing sexual assault at a school that just became a national story for enabling one of the worst instances of sexual assault in the history of the country? That’s not going to be treated with a slap on the wrist. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Exactly. Why the appling and Payne stuff never got any traction in the media is beyond me. 

For all the accolades the media is getting for uncovering the Nassar story and covering the impact statements this past week, the same media looked the other way and downplayed these other stories. 

You are right in that every program breaks the rules. It works out until you get caught. Some programs break the rules worse than others. If you’re lucky, you fudged the grades and gave some impermissible benefits. 

But covering up and not punishing sexual assault at a school that just became a national story for enabling one of the worst instances of sexual assault in the history of the country? That’s not going to be treated with a slap on the wrist. 

and that report doesnt even mention the winston stuff, the guy who spit on the cop, the fight with the hockey team.  a big chunk of that article is just complaints that didnt go anywhere.  if the football player gets accused of something and the girl doesnt press charges, the university cant really do anything to the guy.  if its part of an intimidation regime, or if it becomes a serious pattern, thats something that the institution needs to be held accountable for.  if its just a he said/she said against one guy, thats another thing entirely.

unless they have some smoking gun against dantonio like they did with briles, i doubt he leaves.  but at least the national media is finally on to what everyone else seemed to know about msu's football program under saint mark.

at least they have the pride of beating michigan even while everything appears to be going before the fall.

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Listen to the CBS college basketball podcast. About halfway in Matt Norlander had a great rant about how ridiculous it is this stuff didn't bring programs down until recently.  It summed it up nicely and I wish I had time to transcribe.

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This is bad for MSU.  Hard to imagine how you can become so disillusioned that covering up sexual assault is more important than dismissing a player or representative of a university in the name of winning.  

Nobody has won today.  They need to clean house at MSU. 

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Hopefully some actual journalists show up to the postgame press conference tonight and ask Izzo some real questions. I wonder what graham couch will ask about. 

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Lou Anna Simon did everything to protect the MSU athletes and staff.  Did nothing for the victims.  Izzo defended her. 

Everyone needs to go. 

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"I have received many questions and inquiries about today's reports - the latest reports. I'm here tonight to say that any accusations of my handling of any complaints of sexual assault individually are completely false. Every incident reported in that article was documented by either police or the Michigan State Title IX Office. I've always worked with the proper authorities when dealing with the cases of sexual assault."  - Mark Dantonio today.

What I take this to mean is that in each of the six(!!!) occurrences of sexual assault or domestic violence between 2009-2014 reported by ESPN, Dantonio was aware of them, and chose not to act, and chose not to change his program's culture, until 2017, when four of his players were arrested in two incidences. Even then, he lied about his program's culture, calling the 2017 sexual assaults a "new ground for us".

It's on Michigan State and the NCAA now whether they feel that's just an okay thing to do.

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3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

"I have received many questions and inquiries about today's reports - the latest reports. I'm here tonight to say that any accusations of my handling of any complaints of sexual assault individually are completely false. Every incident reported in that article was documented by either police or the Michigan State Title IX Office. I've always worked with the proper authorities when dealing with the cases of sexual assault."  - Mark Dantonio today.

What I take this to mean is that in each of the six(!!!) occurrences of sexual assault or domestic violence between 2009-2014 reported by ESPN, Dantonio was aware of them, and chose not to act, and chose not to change his program's culture, until 2017, when four of his players were arrested in two incidences. Even then, he lied about his program's culture, calling the 2017 sexual assaults a "new ground for us".

It's on Michigan State and the NCAA now whether they feel that's just an okay thing to do.

Good take. I agree. His statement implies he knew about all of them and allowed sport to trump ethic. The prevarication out of MSU is about to go nuclear I suspect. 

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hey, where's loosegoose?  

probably digging up some stat about harbaugh.

  • Haha 2

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On 1/26/2018 at 8:50 PM, T&P_Fan said:

Goes all the way to the top.  Why?

What the **** is going on here?   I mean, seriously.   These championships and trophies and medals - they mean nothing now.  Who cares about your stupid games?     Not that I was totally into the Olympics to begin with, but I am not watching that garbage at all anymore.  Every level of it just stinks - just so corrupt.     Athletes doping or cheating,  bribes, sexual abuse, all of it,  it's just stupid and it's not worth it.   

And the NCAA focuses on not allowing cream cheese for bagels because then the bagel becomes a meal while "student" athletes at North Carolina had people with fake IDs take their tests and write their papers for them - and they do nothing and now finding out they probably knew about MSU. 

burn it down,  burn the whole thing down,  the NCAA is a disgrace.   this is pointless.   

Yeah, they do this crap for money,  how much money are they going to now payout in lawsuits?    

Outside the Nassar thing,  this stuff with Dantonio and Izzo - this probably goes on at almost every single campus, these coaches can't babysit 100 young adults all the time, but the cover ups.......none of this is worth it.  

 

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