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2018 NFL Draft Thread

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53 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Does anybody else think McShay does mock drafts like a fantasy football guy? Or, which is the same thing, like Martin Mayhew? McShay doesn’t seem to get that Round 1 is for QBs and physical freaks, not for guys who are expected to put up fantasy points.

I never saw Michel play, but I’m not a fan of using a first round pick on a guy who is not even the best RB on his own college team.

Having watched SEC games, I don't think this season that Nick Chubb is substantially better than Sony Michel. Looking at the stat sheet, Michel had less carries than Chubb and still gained nearly as many yards and had a higher YPC than Chubb. If given the choice, I'm taking Sony Michel over Nick Chubb.

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Having watched SEC games, I don't think this season that Nick Chubb is substantially better than Sony Michel. Looking at the stat sheet, Michel had less carries than Chubb and still gained nearly as many yards and had a higher YPC than Chubb. If given the choice, I'm taking Sony Michel over Nick Chubb.

My point is that neither one of them carried the offense. Yes, they are both NFL caliber players, but on an offense with several NFL caliber players.

I would have a hard time taking either in the first round.

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Even In a trade down I don't want to take a RB with our first pick. 

Defensive Line, defensive line, defensive line. Those are my 3 choices for our first 2018 pick... whenever it may come. 

With our 2nd pick, be it #51 or other: RB, or RB, or RB. Michel, Chubb, Penny, Guice, whoever drops to that pick and is the best fit and highest rated on our board.

And it's not like we are going away from BPA by picking needs either. The highest rated BPA's are also matching up with needs in each of those first two picks. Qualified RB's will be available with our 2nd pick, and most of the best pass-rushers/ DL'man will be gone. The best DL/ pass rushers (by BPA) are available mid-to-late 1st round/ early 2nd round, lining up with our first pick. It's simply "pick your poison" at each position, at the correct draft pick.

Not until our 4th pick do I start feeling more flexibility in taking need/ BPA, whichever works best: 3rd pick should be interior offensive lineman as the last/ best chance at getting a quality ready-to-start player (like Frank Ragnow: best Center) are here. After that, it's guys to develop, package/ scheme/ special team players, etc. Now you're talking another DL'man, or LB'er, or TE, or CB, or WR, whichever fits best.

IMO, our 1st 3 selections are pretty well locked in stone based on position availability/ need/ AND BPA all lining up: 1) DL, 2) RB, 3) OL.

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Depending on how the board falls, including trades, it wouldn’t surprise or upset me if Quinn drafted a guard or center in the first round.

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7 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Depending on how the board falls, including trades, it wouldn’t surprise or upset me if Quinn drafted a guard or center in the first round.

me neither considering the running back position has a lot of depth and the interior line positions have great talent at the top but not a lot of depth.

couple that with the seeming lack of emphasis they put on stars on defense and it leads me to believe the oline may be the position of choice in round 1.

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I don't like Nick Chubb at all.  No burst, gets tackled too easily.  Much prefer Michel.  Much prefer Penny.  Penny is my favorite back in this draft.

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Penny's awful pass blocking is a concern for me. Not the end of the world, but it was mentioned as a priority. 

I love Chubb, but to each their own. No burst?

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22 hours ago, Jason_R said:


My point is that neither one of them carried the offense. Yes, they are both NFL caliber players, but on an offense with several NFL caliber players.

I would have a hard time taking either in the first round.

Its the highest rushing combo in college history surpassing Craig James and Eric Dickerson fwiw. So, its not like they gave up carries to nobodies. 

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13 hours ago, Buddha said:

me neither considering the running back position has a lot of depth and the interior line positions have great talent at the top but not a lot of depth.

couple that with the seeming lack of emphasis they put on stars on defense and it leads me to believe the oline may be the position of choice in round 1.

You probably just think I'm disagreeing with you for sport, but interior OL is in ever way considered the deepest aspect of this draft. 

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So, its not like they gave up carries to nobodies. 

You just made my point. Neither of them had to carry the full load. (And college offenses rack up a lot more yards these days than they used to.)

 

Anyway, in just about every mock I’ve seen, they both get spotted behind their blocker, Isaiah Wynn. I’d rather have him, or a player like him, at pick 20.

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2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

You probably just think I'm disagreeing with you for sport, but interior OL is in ever way considered the deepest aspect of this draft. 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/20/2018-nfl-draft-ranking-every-position-group/

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/nfl_draft_2018_which_positions.html

 

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

Which shows that edge defenders are one of the weakest positions in this draft and need to be selected at the top of the draft.

RB's have excellent talent and depth, and may even slide into the 3rd round (developmental guy like Freeman... who I actually like a bit (I like Penny more...)).

Good Interior O-Line can be had in the 2nd round and 3rd rounds, specifically stated in your 1st link: "...this group’s strength goes beyond the dominant Nelson. Hernandez, Wynn and Price could all end up sneaking into the first round, while Daniels and Smith are likely to join a strong Day 2 contingent that includes Frank Ragnow (Arkansas) and Mason Cole (Michigan). This group is loaded with versatility, with tons of starting experience at multiple positions, which will serve them well...".

So, IMO... pass rusher really needs to come off the board 1st, trade down or not, and RB/OL or OL/RB goes in the next two picks. 

Maybe Lions brass isn't really enthused with the top-level edge rushers available and decide differently. Don't know how they see it. A trade down could jumble all that up (creating an extra 3rd or early 4th?); allowing us to go Price, RB, raw Edge Rusher (Turay?), depth DT with our 1st 4 picks...

The Cleveland Browns link looks like it is ranking 1st round talent only. It has 6 Guards and 5 Centers as 1st round or "in the mix"... which says there's quality depth at those spots, even if there isn't multiple 1st round talents.

I'm just stating what I see in this draft, and your link confirmed it: Edge earliest, OL (interior)/ RB can be had with the next two picks based on board, with good talent at either position available into the 3rd... The only thing that could throw me off is if somehow Vea or Payne drop to us... especially Vea.

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56 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

Which shows that edge defenders are one of the weakest positions in this draft and need to be selected at the top of the draft.

RB's have excellent talent and depth, and may even slide into the 3rd round (developmental guy like Freeman... who I actually like a bit (I like Penny more...)).

Good Interior O-Line can be had in the 2nd round and 3rd rounds, specifically stated in your 1st link: "...this group’s strength goes beyond the dominant Nelson. Hernandez, Wynn and Price could all end up sneaking into the first round, while Daniels and Smith are likely to join a strong Day 2 contingent that includes Frank Ragnow (Arkansas) and Mason Cole (Michigan). This group is loaded with versatility, with tons of starting experience at multiple positions, which will serve them well...".

So, IMO... pass rusher really needs to come off the board 1st, trade down or not, and RB/OL or OL/RB goes in the next two picks. 

Maybe Lions brass isn't really enthused with the top-level edge rushers available and decide differently. Don't know how they see it. A trade down could jumble all that up (creating an extra 3rd or early 4th?); allowing us to go Price, RB, raw Edge Rusher (Turay?), depth DT with our 1st 4 picks...

The Cleveland Browns link looks like it is ranking 1st round talent only. It has 6 Guards and 5 Centers as 1st round or "in the mix"... which says there's quality depth at those spots, even if there isn't multiple 1st round talents.

I'm just stating what I see in this draft, and your link confirmed it: Edge earliest, OL (interior)/ RB can be had with the next two picks based on board, with good talent at either position available into the 3rd... The only thing that could throw me off is if somehow Vea or Payne drop to us... especially Vea.

the point is that some folks do not think that interior offensive line "in every way is considered the deepest position in the draft" as some posters who disagree with me for sport would have you believe.

as with any draft class, there are differing opinions on various strengths and weaknesses of each position.  the one thing that seems to be constant is that this is a great year for running backs.

i dont even think nastro would disagree with that last statement.

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Yeah... I don't think anyone could call it the deepest position in the draft...

But I do think interior O-Line starters can be found in this year's draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Same with RB. And maybe a starter level RB falls even into the 4th... 

I like edge rushers Landry and Davenport (I'm fine with letting him develop for a year behind Ansah & Hyder...), and not much else. So I'm keen on grabbing one of 'em first, and grabbing OL/RB in the 2nd/ 3rd...

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Which shows that edge defenders are one of the weakest positions in this draft and need to be selected at the top of the draft.

...which shows why they paid so much for one year of Ziggy.

Frankly, this way of thinking generally leads to over-drafting players and leaving talent on the board.

Quinn is not going to beat himself by reaching for a questionable pass rushing prospect, especially not with his boy Patricia coming in to coach ‘em up right. Patricia will build a pass rush by scheme.

Quinn filled the gaps in FA, and can go where the board leads him in the early rounds. He will pick up Vea or Payne in the first round if they fall to him. Otherwise G or C in Round 1. Maybe a RB in Round 2, but if they don’t take DL beef in the 1st Round, they may have a chance in 2nd. I don’t expect (want) them to take a RB until Round 3, but maybe Quinn has heard enough griping about the run game that he gets an itchy trigger finger.

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i hate the idea of overdrafting a rb, but i wouldnt be opposed to picking one up in round 2.

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On 4/7/2018 at 9:30 AM, Nastradamus said:

Penny's awful pass blocking is a concern for me. Not the end of the world, but it was mentioned as a priority...

I think he can learn that aspect.

Not a priority on his college team? 

Also, he'll sit for a year behind Blount/ AA/ Riddick, be an immediate kick-returner/ special teamer for us... and pick up snaps game-by-game at RB as he improves his blocking skills. 

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12 hours ago, Jason_R said:

... Frankly, this way of thinking generally leads to over-drafting players and leaving talent on the board...

I'm highest on Vea... but he doesn't make it to 20.

At 20, I'm very high on Payne/ Landry/ Davenport... so I don't feel like any of those 3 are overdrafts. Feel free to disagree, but I'd be very comfortable with any of those 3 at 20. 

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I'm highest on Vea... but he doesn't make it to 20.
At 20, I'm very high on Payne/ Landry/ Davenport... so I don't feel like any of those 3 are overdrafts. Feel free to disagree, but I'd be very comfortable with any of those 3 at 20. 

Haven’t seen any of them play so I can’t have a strong opinion.

Landry sounds like he’s a 4-3 player. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/harold-landry.

Davenport sounds like he’s being talked about as a 1st Round prospect because there’s nobody else at the position. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marcus-davenport

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46 minutes ago, Jason_R said:


Haven’t seen any of them play so I can’t have a strong opinion.

Landry sounds like he’s a 4-3 player. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/harold-landry.

Davenport sounds like he’s being talked about as a 1st Round prospect because there’s nobody else at the position. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marcus-davenport

Actually... your link to Landry says he can specifically play the 3-4. That he's better at 4-3 DE, but has position flexibility and the skills to do it: 

  • Rangy with plus pursuit speed against the run
  • Has experience standing and dropping into space
  • Plays with good change of direction and quick lateral movement to track down bootlegs
  • While he can play standing for 3-4 teams, he's at his best with his hand in the dirt as a rusher

I like Davenport too, but Landry more... as he is more raw than Landry so there is more risk. Quinn might be risk averse. But I like the high-end athleticism. I probably would get burned taking him. But it says he could pack on some more to his frame, so I see him as a 6' 6" 285 # (eventually) 3-4 DE who can take a year to learn behind Ansah/ Hyder/ etal. If I'm wrong on that, so be it... But I think he'll eventually be a monster 3-4 pass rusher...

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11 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I think he can learn that aspect.

Not a priority on his college team? 

Also, he'll sit for a year behind Blount/ AA/ Riddick, be an immediate kick-returner/ special teamer for us... and pick up snaps game-by-game at RB as he improves his blocking skills. 

Just sayin it was a stated priority by Quinn himself. 

I have no interest in red shirting our RB draftee. Take one and use him or skip the position. THat's a waste 

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Landry is basically a Vic Beasley or Dee Ford. Very good, very fast and athletic, but not very big or tall and will probably never set the edge well. 

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Landry is basically a Vic Beasley or Dee Ford. Very good, very fast and athletic, but not very big or tall and will probably never set the edge well. 

Yeah, the sense I get is that he’s one dimensional. One-dimensionality not translate to Patricia’s complex scheme.

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17 minutes ago, Jason_R said:


Yeah, the sense I get is that he’s one dimensional. One-dimensionality not translate to Patricia’s complex scheme.
 

Though I think there is some chance they might say, we can't find 15 sacks any other way, just go ahead and do your one dimensional thing. Pasqualoni is the key of course. 

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